Off the field: Are the Angels now the worst organization?

[Dick B Back]

I got it. I don't mind the front office cr@p being a fan since 64. I've seen all kinds of cr@p both on and off the field.

Bottom line is, when I go to a game or watch them on the tube i'm not there to see the GM.

[BaseballMom]

I got it. I don't mind the front office cr@p being a fan since 64. I've seen all kinds of cr@p both on and off the field.

Bottom line is, when I go to a game or watch them on the tube i'm not there to see the GM.

 

Yep.  I am totally loving this game right now...2 homers by Trout and Cron?  Hell yeah!

[Lou]

Yep.  I am totally loving this game right now...2 homers by Trout and Cron?  Hell yeah!

 

 game?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

After watching the Phillies tonight, there is no doubt in my mind what the worst run organization in baseball is. Given that they are in the same division with Jeffrey Loria's Marlins, that is no small accomplishment.

Edited July 11, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[tomsred]

I believe the reason Jerry Dipoto was so loved is because he was a great communicator, very articulate, and a generally positive person.  He made a great first impression on just about everyone he met, especially the fans who interacted with him.  That's the positive side, I have no way of knowing how great  of a GM in private he was because I wasn't privy to his management skills, how he handled people internally or even how effective the plans he created actually were.  That side of GM performance we can't evaluate as fans, it's a private company.  We see how he did at selling fans on his ideas (he was great), but could he sell other baseball people on his approach, I don't know.  He re-populated almost his entire organization with people who shared his beliefs, so he shouldn't have had any resistance there.  Arte stopped him from doing the same with the coaching staff.  If he had been given the authority to replace the entire coaching staff, I assume that he would have found personnel who shared his beliefs and he would have had no resistance.  That said, if he had all of his choices in place throughout the organization would it has resulted in success - I don't really know.

 

It's like Jeff Fletcher said with players, fans see unproven young players and project greatness, and they look at veterans and see weaknesses.  I'd say the same is pretty much true for GM's and coaching staffs.  Fans love sabermetrics (and Dipoto preached them), communication and people handling skills aren't as quantifiable,  and are more nebulous, but just as important.  You need both to be successful.

 

So why is Mike Scioscia not as popular?  I think it's because all managers take constant heat over every decision they make, and they are all out in the open for everyone to critique.  A lot of what a GM decides day to day is private, and never disclosed.  If a manager spent their time trying to answer all of their critics, and explain every little detailed move they make day after day, it soaks precious time away from their job with the players.  Plus it would probably put just about anyone in a mental hospital.  The good of managing is that you are on the front lines of the war against other teams and many love that comroderie with the other coaches and the relationship with the players.  The bad is that the press, fans, your bosses, and baseball analysts everywhere bore in on every mistake you, and sometimes your players, make.  After a while, they only remember the mistakes, and down play much of anything positive.

Edited July 11, 2015 by tomsred

[ten ocho recon scout]

^great post

[Blarg]

Dipoto was referred to as General by Tim Mead. The reason? Well, 'yall should ask Tim at the summer fanfest.

[Angel Oracle]

I got it. I don't mind the front office cr@p being a fan since 64. I've seen all kinds of cr@p both on and off the field.

Bottom line is, when I go to a game or watch them on the tube i'm not there to see the GM.

Same here, although only since 1966

[seenoevil]

[tomsred]

Dipoto was referred to as General by Tim Mead. The reason? Well, 'yall should ask Tim at the summer fanfest.

 

Is that a kind way of saying he is a micro-manager?

[Lou E Ville]

I wonder if Dipoto and other GMs fancy themselves as Billy Beane (as played by Brad Pitt) to their own detriment? I'm going to be that guy, when the organization doesn't need that guy. They might need a guy who can get along with the manager.

[tomsred]

I wonder if Dipoto and other GMs fancy themselves as Billy Beane (as played by Brad Pitt) to their own detriment? I'm going to be that guy, when the organization doesn't need that guy. They might need a guy who can get along with the manager.

I thought about that as well. The movie certainly made an impression on fans, especially the part where Beane beats on Art Howe. Beane is certainly known for his clubhouse meddling. The movie romanticizes Beane as effective in that role, but that's not effective in many organizations. I don't see the A's as having the organization to emulate. I would rather model the Cardinals or Giants, and those GM's and front offices appear to be quite different from the A's. Actually there are also a number of disconnects from the movie version of Moneyball and the book Moneyball. The book was much better, and more accurate.

In the Scioscia era the A's are not even close to the Angels as far as success is concerned, and in spite of their lower payroll they have had an abundance of top tier draft picks to work with, many more than the Angels.

Edited July 13, 2015 by tomsred

[ELEVEN]

Worst to First?

[Vegas Halo Fan]

In all of the most successful organizations, the GM brought in his own field manager. He wasn't saddled with an entrenched manager who already had the owner's ear. I see that as the root of the problem. If you entrust a man with running the organization, he at least deserves to be surrounded by his own people.

The Angels have a very convoluted chain of command. The next GM will also fail unless he is Scioscia's lap dog.

Edited July 14, 2015 by Vegas Halo Fan

[Hollyw00d]

^truth.

In most other organizations, the manager doesn't have nearly as much pull as scioscia

[ELEVEN]

Dipoto came in during his Mgr's 10 year contract. Wtf could he do?

[Lou]

On the field, the Angels are on a roll and are in great position to make a playoff run, especially if they make some moves at the trade deadline.  But off the field, are the Angels the worst?  

 

http://bloguin.com/theoutsidecorner/2015-articles/are-the-angels-now-the-worst-organization-in-baseball.html

good question

[Jay]

In all of the most successful organizations, the GM brought in his own field manager. He wasn't saddled with an entrenched manager who already had the owner's ear. I see that as the root of the problem. If you entrust a man with running the organization, he at least deserves to be surrounded by his own people.

The Angels have a very convoluted chain of command. The next GM will also fail unless he is Scioscia's lap dog.

 

Tobias Funke wants stats on this.

[tomsred]

^truth.

In most other organizations, the manager doesn't have nearly as much pull as scioscia

 

I guess we are not like most other organizations.  Is there a rule that says it has to be that way?

[Hollyw00d]

Obviously not.

Is it smart? Probably not

[tomsred]

You build an organization around it's strengths.  Arte owns the team, and he can build around what he perceives are the strengths of the organization.  We may disagree, but it's completely meaningless because we have no authority or responsibilities involved in how things are constructed.  Just because the PA announcer says "here are your Angels", they really aren't ours.  They are Arte's  Angels, or The Angels.  So I refuse to get too worked up about something I have no authority or responsibility over.  They are entertaining and thought provoking, and I'll always hope they find success because it's fun to see success happen.

 

There is a lot that's fun about this team, and some very unique performances.  Management of the team is a thankless job with the public scrutinizing every twitch.  The off field organization is a private company, anything goes, and it's all subject to owner approval.  They don't have to answer to fans or anyone else (except the commissioner's office) on how to conduct their operations.

Edited July 16, 2015 by tomsred

[Lou]

the organization sure took a PR hit last night

[tomsred]

the organization sure took a PR hit last night

 

...and the night before, LOL.

[arch stanton]

I was just thinking about how we hold up the Cardinals as the model organization. As I recall, when they were actually winning World Series they had a manager whose level of authority would make Sosh blush.

[tomsred]

I was just thinking about how we hold up the Cardinals as the model organization. As I recall, when they were actually winning World Series they had a manager whose level of authority would make Sosh blush.

 

So true.