Josh Hamilton meets with MLB officials about a disciplinary issue

[Angelsjunky]

I have a slightly different take, Brandon. I think just about everyone is addicted to something or another, whether it is drugs, booze, sex, sugar, consumerism (spending money), anger, stress, certain behaviors, ideology, religion, etc. It just manifests differently. Some people are more prone to addictions and we call them "addictive personalities," but we are all prone to addiction of one kind or another. So for me it isn't us vs. them - it is all of us.

 

But I agree with you, a full-blown addiction is very, very difficult to beat. There are better and worse addictions. Heroin is worse than caffeine, etc.

 

I'm an ex-smoker and it took me, I don't know, a dozen times to quit? But I did get over it. Every once in awhile I'll have a cigarette--maybe once a year--but I'm never tempted to go back. I actually find smoking disgusting now, although I'll have one every blue moon if I'm having drinks with old friends. But it was very hard to quit and I needed a long period of going without before I was fully and truly over it. Glad I got that monkey off my back! Like many Americans I'm also a sugar and coffee addict, although have chosen the route of moderation and "functional addiction," but still find myself eating too much sugar.

[Jeff Fletcher]

To everyone saying there should be some morals clause that would allow the Angels to get out of this, there are morals clauses that cover things that aren't otherwise covered.

If Hamilton was going around the mall flashing little girls, im sure the morals clause could be invoked.

But you can't put double jeapardy on something that's already accounted for.

"But Josh has a history," you say.

Yes, the current drug agreement allows for that by having stiffer penalties for multiple offenses.

How exactly that would apply to Josh is unclear. I don't think his minor league offenses count for nothing, but they don't count the same as major league offenses either. I don't even think the Angels know the answer to this yet.

And also, let's not forget that we still don't know exactly what he did.

[Tyler]

To everyone saying there should be some morals clause that would allow the Angels to get out of this, there are morals clauses that cover things that aren't otherwise covered.

If Hamilton was going around the mall flashing little girls, im sure the morals clause could be invoked.

But you can't put double jeapardy on something that's already accounted for.

"But Josh has a history," you say.

Yes, the current drug agreement allows for that by having stiffer penalties for multiple offenses.

How exactly that would apply to Josh is unclear. I don't think his minor league offenses count for nothing, but they don't count the same as major league offenses either. I don't even think the Angels know the answer to this yet.

And also, let's not forget that we still don't know exactly what he did.

 

When will the Angels be notified of the penalties? With everyone else, or beforehand?

[Brandon]

Good post and one worthy of discourse. I don't like to get too personal like years past, but for the sake of this convo a lot of my education comes from my fiancee who is a therapist....degrees, years of experience, blah, blah, blah....everything outside of a doctor, but basically Dr. Melfi from the Sopranos. I've changed my stance dramatically over the years understand more about what she does and how she works with or treats patients...and really just what people go through. It's not black and white like AW doctor guy thinks.

As for your post:

I think you can't say everyone has an addiction, but everyone has a vice or hobby...likes and dislikes. Addiction requires certain parameters and functions. It's also something different, with a vice or hobby we can get bored of shopping or have a coping mechanism for stress, but addicts are wired differently. Even different than abusers...which are frequently grouped together. The guy that likes to get smashed is not an addict, he's an abuser. The guy that is solely dependent on alcohol and needs it to function is an addict.

Indeed, addictions are better or worse....some people are addicted to the gym. Which is deemed as a health benefit, but might actually be harmful. The thing that people don't differentiate is that addiction doesn't differ even though us in society see a heroine addict as worse than someone with food addiction. Their wiring and processes are similar. People would understand better if they got out of the thought process of one addiction being better or worse than another. It's basically a mental disease for both.

And that's the difference between addiction and what perceive as normal. There's a mental aspect that you know you want to stop or can stop, it's not the same for addicts. I can't define it as I'm not a professional in the industry, but there is something simply different about a real addict or addiction that we don't deal with or comprehend. You see it where people literally loses their lives to gambling, drugs, etc. and just ruin families while we think it should be as simple as saying stop.

This won't resonate with some, but you're not changing anyone's mind or legitimately making sense to some random on a baseball message board. Hell, some here don't care to understand or accept.

[Brandon]

My post above was for AJ. I didn't quote.

[Jeff Fletcher]

When will the Angels be notified of the penalties? With everyone else, or beforehand?

It will probably be before but by a matter of hours not days.

[mrwicked]

Good post and one worthy of discourse. I don't like to get too personal like years past, but for the sake of this convo a lot of my education comes from my fiancee who is a therapist....degrees, years of experience, blah, blah, blah....everything outside of a doctor, but basically Dr. Melfi from the Sopranos. I've changed my stance dramatically over the years understand more about what she does and how she works with or treats patients...and really just what people go through. It's not black and white like AW doctor guy thinks.

As for your post:

I think you can't say everyone has an addiction, but everyone has a vice or hobby...likes and dislikes. Addiction requires certain parameters and functions. It's also something different, with a vice or hobby we can get bored of shopping or have a coping mechanism for stress, but addicts are wired differently. Even different than abusers...which are frequently grouped together. The guy that likes to get smashed is not an addict, he's an abuser. The guy that is solely dependent on alcohol and needs it to function is an addict.

Indeed, addictions are better or worse....some people are addicted to the gym. Which is deemed as a health benefit, but might actually be harmful. The thing that people don't differentiate is that addiction doesn't differ even though us in society see a heroine addict as worse than someone with food addiction. Their wiring and processes are similar. People would understand better if they got out of the thought process of one addiction being better or worse than another. It's basically a mental disease for both.

And that's the difference between addiction and what perceive as normal. There's a mental aspect that you know you want to stop or can stop, it's not the same for addicts. I can't define it as I'm not a professional in the industry, but there is something simply different about a real addict or addiction that we don't deal with or comprehend. You see it where people literally loses their lives to gambling, drugs, etc. and just ruin families while we think it should be as simple as saying stop.

This won't resonate with some, but you're not changing anyone's mind or legitimately making sense to some random on a baseball message board. Hell, some here don't care to understand or accept.

 

Dude - congrats!

I didn't know you guys were engaged. That's awesome man. Seriously.

Let's have a Zima and celebrate over a game of Shoots n Ladders.

Very stoked for you brutha.

Edited February 27, 2015 by mrwicked

[Brandon]

Dude - congrats!

I didn't know you guys were engaged. That's awesome man. Seriously.

Let's have a Zima and celebrate over a game of Shoots n Ladders.

Very stoked for you brutha.

Shhhhhhhh.....

I did the same thing by accident in a thread a while back and felt like a phony, by accident or simplicity.

Nothing official or legit. Dudes like you ruin it with one of the greatest proposals I've ever witnessed (I was actually proud and emotional as weird as that sounds because of the job you did), so I have some plans and we both use the term, but I'll do something official when our careers settle a tad, I talk to her dad, and find a reliable cameraman to pull off the greatness you did.

(Seriously, it went from a basic plan to seeing how yours came out and instantly thinking I need to do that. The pics and moment were captured perfectly)

But **** it, we can have Zimas and go over the nuances of Willow.

[Angelsjunky]

My post above was for AJ. I didn't quote.

 

Good post - the long one, that is. I agree with most of what you say, but again, see it as a spectrum. You could say that a "vice" is a low-grade addiction, or at least one that is more societally accepted and/or less destructive. But the key is, as you say, the mental aspect which makes it (seem) impossible to stop.

 

p.s. I wonder if the word "Madmartigan" has ever been written on AW.

[mp170.6]

I have a suggestion for those who doubt the nature of addiction.  Stop watching porn.  I'm serious. 

 

You will relapse in the first two weeks guaranteed.  Humility will hit you with stunning force when you realize you're addicted just as badly as Hamilton is addicted to whatever.

[Lou]

I have a suggestion for those who doubt the nature of addiction.  Stop watching porn.  I'm serious. 

 

You will relapse in the first two weeks guaranteed.  Humility will hit you with stunning force when you realize you're addicted just as badly as Hamilton is addicted to whatever.

 

[Guest]

I actually hope Josh gets better and comes back. His story is pretty inspiring, and jokes aside—he doesn't deserve to go down like this. Hopefully MLB cuts him some slack this time because a long suspension will only make things worse for Josh.

[Lou]

Josh is going to serve a short (shorter than expected) suspension and the team will welcome him back with open arms and love him dearly.

Josh will then come out and absolutely rake this year.

 

Celebration ensues

[Angelsjunky]

I hope so, Lou.

[Brandon]

Josh is going to serve a short (shorter than expected) suspension and the team will welcome him back with open arms and love him dearly.

Josh will then come out and absolutely rake this year.

Celebration ensues

That's the plan.

I wish everyone felt that way opposed to being pissed he has to play.

[Brandon]

Good post - the long one, that is. I agree with most of what you say, but again, see it as a spectrum. You could say that a "vice" is a low-grade addiction, or at least one that is more societally accepted and/or less destructive. But the key is, as you say, the mental aspect which makes it (seem) impossible to stop.

p.s. I wonder if the word "Madmartigan" has ever been written on AW.

It's not a spectrum, I just tend to look at things through a clinical perspective. But it's just jargon and perspective, ultimately we see things pretty close. I try to be careful with my wording because I used to call guys like him losers like some here not knowing what I was talking about.

Unfortunately, my knowledge comes from a mostly bad place because my better half sometimes needs to simply talk about what she sees. The alcoholic dad that puts his cigarette butts out on kids or the dad that kills the mom and every kid in the family but one that she deals with. It's almost traumatic listening to these, but she does a good job of painting the psychological defects that people here wouldn't get.

[Docwaukee]

It's simple guys.

Anyone with any sort of addiction are wired differently. Like someone with autism, learning disability, or even psychological issues like depression, panic attacks, or anxiety.

Where some of you get that there is some sort of on and off switch is absurd and ignorant. I'm guessing you guys believe retards should suddenly have better motor skills or people with anxiety disorders should stop being pussies?

There's a lot that goes into everyone's make up. From genetics, to childhood development, to traumatic events. Who know what or why he became an addict or has addictive personality disorder, but it's his makeup and with him the rest of his life like his hair color.

It's just astounding that some here who probably have a deemed normal life think that's the norm for everyone and people that don't live or fit in their makeup are some how terrible people or treated like some kind of **** up.

that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought out statement.

 

OVERRULED!!

 

(btw, I'm pretty sure that 'retard' isn't the most cricket term going)

[ELEVEN]

I find cricket to be retarded.

Carry on...

[Hollyw00d]

Josh is going to serve a short (shorter than expected) suspension and the team will welcome him back with open arms and love him dearly.

Josh will then come out and absolutely rake this year.

 

Celebration ensues

And then arte woke up.

[Hollyw00d]

Dudes not sick, dude likes to party.

Dude didn't "relapse" because he has a disease. He "relapsed" because he wanted to party.

Not sure if serious.

If you are, come on. You're smarter than that

[Lou]

Not sure if serious.

If you are, come on. You're smarter than that

 

he is not!!!

 

 

you're welcome, cals

[Ohtaniland]

Josh is going to serve a short (shorter than expected) suspension and the team will welcome him back with open arms and love him dearly.

Josh will then come out and absolutely rake this year.

Celebration ensues

So .300 / 30 / 100 is still a go?

[Lou]

Announcement Forthcoming 

[Troll Daddy]

I don't know what it means to be an addict. I do know that its apparently terrible and very difficult. Therefore, I feel bad for Josh and don't really want to judge him. It is unfortunate that he has relapsed. To his credit, it appears that he came forward with this news, and to me that suggests that he really does want to do right. Its just a shitty situation. I think just about everyone here was super excited when the Angels signed him. I know that I definitely wanted to think that he would not have druggie problems and would anchor a powerful 1-4 punch for the Angels. It was on paper the kind of line up we desperately wanted during the 04-08 years. Due to that I was extremely excited about bringing him in. Unfortunately it just has not worked out. His personal problems make it crappier. I hope the guy can get right. But at this point I hope that the Angels and Josh Hamilton are able to part ways. The guy doesn't belong in any spot light, even one a light handed as the OC. The Angels took a chance on him and its been disastrous. I would hope that some kind of clause exists in his contract that gives an Angels an out in this kind of situation. This is not an Arod error. Hopefully the club doesn't have to get horribly burned by it.

EDIT: And I see now that there is apparently no out.

You crap on the guy every chance you get. Your I feel sorry for him routine is pathetic.

[Hollyw00d]

You people blow my mind.

What do you mean, you people?