Jeb Bush

[Splint7438]

Crediting presidents for economic growth or failure is political fantasy. That might be fair if you include all of Congress over the same period, but even then, it doesn't make much sense if the House or Senate has changed hands over the same period. 

 

Economic changes of any big significance take years to materialize, and the US Economy historically goes through a complete cycle -- including a recession -- every 8-10 years.  That is normal. 

 

The argument you're offering that a President's charisma and personal ideology has the power to make or break a $17 Trillion economy is nonsense.

This is true. However if you will recall Clinton ran on "the worst economy of the last 50 years". And that just wasn't true. Post Vietnam/oil crunch/runaway inflation during Carter was a worse economy. But as you stated these things are cyclical and were not entirely of Carters doing. Clinton ran against a lie was the point I took from his post.

I do believe that Clinton benefitted from policies put in place by previous administrations. He even admitted that the economy was improving before the election. Of course he waited until after the election to say it. And then took credit by saying the people were inspired by his imminent election. Lol spoken like a true politician. I do believe the "Internet economy" was a real phenomenon that created massive amounts of wealth. Even with the Dot.com busts there were billions of dollars of new wealth. Clinton just happened to be in office during the time when home PCs and the Internet became widespread and affordable. (No Al Gore jokes). The influx of Internet money is an anomaly in the 8-10 year rule you mentioned.

[Splint7438]

Ok ya'll I apologize for hijacking a thread to go over events from 24 years ago. But I didn't want to let pass what I felt was a misrepresentation of Bush 41. I also never addressed the topic of Jeb Bush. To be honest I don't know a great deal about him and his core beliefs. But knowing the family he comes from I will give him a listen if he decides to run.

[mp170.6]

Go back and read my post, I am not making that point. And, I actually agree with you (for the most part). However, I do think presidents can dictate monetary policy that can help drive an economy.

My point was that people bash Bush Sr. for presiding at a time when the economy was bad, when the truth is that the economy was rapidly strenghthening during his final year in office.

 

Gotcha.  I see where I misunderstood you. 

[mp170.6]

Wopphil mentioned monetary policy. 

 

It is my firm belief that no past, present, or future President of the United States actually understands it.  Some minion in each administration is telling each President how to think and what position to take.  And I say this as someone with a degree in Economics.  Monetary policy is brutal subject matter.  There's no 101 course or a Cliff's Notes summary that tells you the essentials.  I have no hesitation admitting that monetary policy was not a strong subject for me. 

[Splint7438]

Bush 43 made a decision on 9-11 that we would not be tacked on our soil again. Virtually everything he did after that was aimed at this end game. In that he was successful. He crossed the aisle for support and that's where the spending went out of control. Not only had Clinton not given the peace dividend back to taxpayers He had spent it. Now when we needed to gear up militarily we need new money. Bush let dems spend whatever they wante so long as they supported his Mid East efforts. History will tell how well thought out his efforts were. But we didn't have another attack on US soil.

[arch stanton]

No need for them to attack again sine they got their "Mission Accomplished" in destroying the country. We are now citizens of an oppressive corporatocracy that spies on and murders its own citizens and changes the definition of words in laws that don't suit them. Patriot Act, TARP, trillion dollar wars in the name of regime change, criminally wide wealth gap that keeps on widening. These are just a few of the accomplishments that 21st century politicians, of whom Bush 43 is poster child, can look to a a legacy.

 

Maybe Jeb is different. I'm not buying it. Piling red trash on top of blue trash just gives you purple trash.

[Stradling]

Don't you mean "terrorists"?

[Schildog]

Bush 43 made a decision on 9-11 that we would not be tacked on our soil again. Virtually everything he did after that was aimed at this end game. In that he was successful. He crossed the aisle for support and that's where the spending went out of control. Not only had Clinton not given the peace dividend back to taxpayers He had spent it. Now when we needed to gear up militarily we need new money. Bush let dems spend whatever they wante so long as they supported his Mid East efforts. History will tell how well thought out his efforts were. But we didn't have another attack on US soil.

Well done for Bush. We had foreign states and terrorists attacking us on a daily basis since Pearl Harbor. How he stopped that, I'll never know.

[Stradling]

Your shit is getting old.

Haha, it was a joke.

[Stradling]

But even though I was joking how can you possibly comment on this thread if you truly believe 911 was an inside job?

[Kevin]

19 cavemen? You might want to look into Mohammed Atta's education. Let me guess though, that part was made up?

Most of the "muscle" hijackers didn't really need skills to contain the passengers. The pilots, while not great, probably had enough training to at least steer the planes.

By the way, are you looking for a perfectly shaped 757 hole in the pentagon? Sorry to tell you but it doesn't work that way. Also you do realize that plane flew over a highway where there were hundreds of witnesses that saw it impact the pentagon? Hmmm they must have been sheeple obviously.

Edited January 6, 2015 by Kevin

[shellback]

i remember meeting the operations officer from the uss Turner Joy that planned the tonkin gulf incident from start to finish. listening to this guy freely explain to me the entire bogus event as planned by him confused and disheartened a patriotic and bright eyed young sailor. whats wierd is this guy was actually proud of his authorship.

at least meeting this lieutenant commander taught me , at age 18, to look critically and cynically at what the us government is up to versus what they say they are up to.

 i think the term "conspiricy theory" was invented by the us government and became a kind of buzz word discussion killer.

kinda like calling somebody a racist- its like shooting a discussion with a .45 . once those terms are introduced into a discussion, the user destroys the credibility of the accused and the accused is never able to discuss the thesis of the original talk.

all hail doublethink, doublespeak and political correctness.

[mtangelsfan]

Theories need to actually make sense.  I don't trust the government basically at all.  However a logical look at the facts of 9/11 does not give credence to alternate theories.

[Adam]

I love how people get fired up for their favorite teams when an election is approaching

[Glen]

I love how people get fired up for their favorite teams when an election is approaching

 

 

I'm fairly liberal (do I really need to say that?) and I have zero interest in the 2016 election so far.  I'd like to vote for somebody like Jim Webb or Bernie Sanders, or hell I'd even vote for Gary Johnson if the republicans would give him the shot.  But yeah, it's gonna he Hillary and some equally uninspiring candidate from the right.  Guess I'll be voting independent yet again.

[shellback]

on elections, why not just have the supreme court decide who the president is going to be? presidential elections are pretty much meaningless anyway, and it would save the candidates alot of dough.

i enjoyed the fidel castro offer of cuban election monitors for a recent potus election. just to make sure, you know, nothing funny was going on.

[wopphil]

There is no way they could have made a 275 degree descending 8,000 ft corkscrew turn/decent to make a hole much smaller than the actual plane itself. Even if they were expert pilots, aeronautical engineers have said that the wings would have ripped off during such a maneuver.

And how did 19 who literally crawled out of caves defeat the multi-billion dollar US air defense system for HOURS?

The stand down order is fact.

I thought it was essentially impossible to steer a commercial jet in such a way that the wings can break off (without striking something). Am I wrong? Edited January 6, 2015 by wopphil

[mp170.6]

I remember this neighbor of ours, a now-retired United captain, calling BS on the narrative of the American 757 hitting the Pentagon. 

 

He said following 9/11, the NTSB or FBI or somebody put a bunch of 757 pilots in the simulator and none of them could crash into the Pentagon with the same precision as the alleged hijacker, the same guy who weeks earlier couldn't fly a Cessna 150 to save his life. 

[Crampknees]

I love a good Bush conspiracy.  I agree, no towel head could have maneuvered those planes. 

 

The Bush family fortunate is made up of nothing but honorable deals acting as true patriots.  The love for them in here has me verklempt.  

[Kevin]

So people on the highway didn't see an American airlines jet crash into the pentagon? Got it.

[mp170.6]

So people on the highway didn't see an American airlines jet crash into the pentagon? Got it.

 

That's not what I said. 

[Crampknees]

So people on the highway didn't see an American airlines jet crash into the pentagon? Got it.

I believe they did but it was likely an unmanned drone anyway. 

[mtangelsfan]

[Crampknees]

Gabby Johnson has my vote. 

[nate]

People overlook the fact that Bush Sr got us into a war because his oil buddies pressured him into it and Bush Jr used 9/11 to manufacture a reason to clean up what his daddy couldn't do.

 

Neither of them were good presidents.