Should young players make more?

[arch stanton]

The MLBPA is made up of veterans. Veterans who have no incentive to change the current system which gives them guaranteed big money contracts because the teams have the power to control young player salary. 

[Inside Pitch]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/minor-league-baseball-to-seek-congressional-protection-from-the-minimum-wage/

 

Shady

[Angel Oracle]

Mancini brought up a great point about the average cost to develop someone in the farm system.

The NFL has no farm system to speak of, and the NBA simply has the D-League. Even the NHL doesn't have nearly as deep of a farm system as MLB.

That does seem to give the owners a need to protect that investment in their prospects through have club control in the prospects' growing years.

It is a broad brush to say all owners are guilty of letting salaries spiral out of control.

But it has increased this decade, especially.

As long as the MLB tv deal is as lucrative as it is though, that will encourage more teams to pay out those outrageous deals where they can.

The luxury tax threshold, as currently set, will only negatively impact the top team salaries/richest owners in MLB. It alone will not keep the owners from paying these salaries. But what is a better alternative that would actually better control runaway salaries without impacting the investment in a team's farm system?

[floplag]

The thing is that these guys never get paid for their best years it seems... the first chance to really get paid doesnt come till the late 20s most of the time at best due to so many years of club control at the onset.

Trout is the first young guy i can recall getting paid what he got paid... even Harder is making less over the next 2 years that trout will by a long shot.. not that hes as good, just saying.. hes the other young stud and hes making a pittance comparatively speaking.

 

This is also why that first big payday tens to not always be a great cointract for the clubs as your paying them as much for what they did, as what they will do, knowing that they will likely not be as good towards the end of the deal in most cases. 

At the end of the day the structures of club controlled years really kinda become the problem. they put of paying them, but then when they have to it usually costs more than it would have.  I wonder if less club years might be a better thing in the long run... but the owners want to have that cake and eat it to and that aint happening

[Adam]

I don't like that players have little to no freedom for their first 6 years. 

[red321]

Everyone should make less. Salaries are out of control.

 

So, that means owners should keep more of the profits?

[Adam]

It would be nice if there were some merit/incentive pay. I'm fine with league minimums and arbitration. These guys know the deal when they sign up to play, but it sucks when a rookie or second year guy is absolutely crushing. Maybe a stat like WAR, if more refined, could determine raises.

[Tank]

Tank's solution:

 

Create a base salary system, where your base salary is determined by years of play.

* first year base - 500k

* second year base - 750k

* third year base - 1m

etc.

 

then load it up with incentives.

bonus money for each RBI, HR, double, run scored, sac fly, walk

bonus money for fielding pct, number of errors, DPs turned

bonus money for pitchers for each win, save, K, shutout, complete game

bonus money for getting MVP, cy young, ROY, sliver slugger, gold glove

bonus money for getting votes for each of those awards

bonus money for making the all star team

 

more bonus money for team wins, making the playoffs, advancing in the playoffs, getting into the world series, team era, team winning percentage, etc.

having team incentives can help make sure that players are focused as much on how the team does as how they do personally.

 

i have no set amount on what the bonus money should be, but that can be negotiated with the players union so that your better players are earning more. it's all performance based and should eliminate silly contracts like albert and hamilton have.

[Blarg]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/minor-league-baseball-to-seek-congressional-protection-from-the-minimum-wage/

Shady

OK, pay them minimum wage but remove signing bonus' since your average entry level worker isn't given $500k to sign with McDonald's.

[Jim]

The NFL has no farm system to speak of, and the NBA simply has the D-League.

The NFL and NBA both have very nice farm systems. It's called the NCAA. And it's FREE. 

[tomsred]

This isn't all on the owners.  This is what happens when the Players Union becomes as strong as it is in MLB.  How many players want to be paid high salaries because they have played for a long time, and are unwilling to see rookie players who haven't earned their stripes share in the wealth?

[Jim]

Tank's solution:

 

Create a base salary system, where your base salary is determined by years of play.

* first year base - 500k

* second year base - 750k

* third year base - 1m

etc.

 

then load it up with incentives.

bonus money for each RBI, HR, double, run scored, sac fly, walk

bonus money for fielding pct, number of errors, DPs turned

bonus money for pitchers for each win, save, K, shutout, complete game

bonus money for getting MVP, cy young, ROY, sliver slugger, gold glove

bonus money for getting votes for each of those awards

bonus money for making the all star team

 

more bonus money for team wins, making the playoffs, advancing in the playoffs, getting into the world series, team era, team winning percentage, etc.

having team incentives can help make sure that players are focused as much on how the team does as how they do personally.

 

i have no set amount on what the bonus money should be, but that can be negotiated with the players union so that your better players are earning more. it's all performance based and should eliminate silly contracts like albert and hamilton have.

I believe the use of performance enhancement aids would rise sharply.   

[Blarg]

You make a valid point as do others, but why call members "idiots"?

frustrated with guys like QuinlansMinion that is basically making Boras's argument for him to increase his commission.

The leagues pay scale is completely out of whack where athletes are getting 10 year contracts valued at the GNP of 3rd world countries and the audacity that the bench guys underpaid when they make $6 million a year.

Sensible salary caps along with a reasonable tiered salary structure for club control players while tossing arbitration to the street is what makes sense. There is no reason a marginal player gets to base arbitration to league average salaries when the top ten percent players are included in the median.

The minors costs a lot of money and every players arm, foot, knee is insured to get fixed even if they never play. The stadiums barely cover costs and most draftees wash out the first two years. This is all funded by the parent club so the guy that does it can start at high corporate executive pay that is reserved for business professionals that paid more dues than a three or five year stint in the minors.

It is complete bullshit the pay scale that the owners backed themselves into a corner with but when so many teams are hitting the top payroll status just because they had to drop $30 million a year on a Trout or Stanton, something needs to be fixed.

Because your $5 cheap seat is now $45 and isn't going down anytime soon. This isn't the NFL where there is only one game a week for an 8 game home season. If you are an average wage earner you can afford to go to %10 of the games at best, to watch guys play that are making dot Com value money.

It's silly and sillier to say any of them are under paid.

[Reveille1984]

It's ridiculous minor league players are paid so little, they're the ones who should earn more. If we draft someone we don't think much of at the time (so he doesn't get much of a bonus) but he establishes himself as a top prospect, we've got a big part of the future of our organisation eating cheap takeaway every night during the season and forced to find shit jobs in the offseason just to make a very crappy living. That's ridiculous. I'm not saying they should be paid like kings, but human beings would be a decent start.

 

Was gonna say the same thing.  Just read an article yesterday about how little minor league players make in the states and why so many of them are going to Japan to play ball.  Most of these guys are effectively being paid less than minimum wage when you factor in spring training and instructional offseason leagues.  Complaining about rookies making half a million a year is a joke in comparison.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-milb-money-vs-japan-words-from-the-winter-meetings/

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/minor-league-baseball-to-seek-congressional-protection-from-the-minimum-wage/

[Angel Oracle]

The NFL and NBA both have very nice farm systems. It's called the NCAA. And it's FREE. 

LOL, and it is essentially true for the top athletes in college.

[T.G.]

To those who think baseball players make too much money - how do you feel about the cast of Big Bang Theory getting $90 million each on their new contract?  http://www.businessinsider.com/big-bang-theory-cast-sign-90-million-salary-deal-2014-8

 

Baseball players are basically entertainers and entertainers get huge dollars.

 

Also - baseball is flush with money.  Do you think more of it should go to the owners?  It's going to go somewhere... why not to the players?

[Blarg]

The cast of the big bang theory bring in higher ratings in syndicated reruns than baseball games.

[T.G.]

notti - so the cast benefits for the higher ratings, right? So, why shouldn't baseball players benefit from the revenue being generated in baseball?

[nate]

All contracts should be performance based.  That would never happen though.

 

The NFL has a much better system.  Hard salary cap and most contracts have very little guaranteed money.

[AngelsSurfer]

To those who think baseball players make too much money - how do you feel about the cast of Big Bang Theory getting $90 million each on their new contract?  http://www.businessinsider.com/big-bang-theory-cast-sign-90-million-salary-deal-2014-8

 

Baseball players are basically entertainers and entertainers get huge dollars.

 

Also - baseball is flush with money.  Do you think more of it should go to the owners?  It's going to go somewhere... why not to the players?

 

 

 

Yep. Just as with baseball players, I'm absolutely fine with actors getting as much as they can. They're making a lot of money for those studios; they deserve a return on it.

[Tank]

I believe the use of performance enhancement aids would rise sharply.   

 

if they keep monitoring diligently, it shouldn't be an issue.

[AngelsSurfer]

Was gonna say the same thing.  Just read an article yesterday about how little minor league players make in the states and why so many of them are going to Japan to play ball.  Most of these guys are effectively being paid less than minimum wage when you factor in spring training and instructional offseason leagues.  Complaining about rookies making half a million a year is a joke in comparison.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/sunday-notes-milb-money-vs-japan-words-from-the-winter-meetings/

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/minor-league-baseball-to-seek-congressional-protection-from-the-minimum-wage/

 

This. I once had a conversation with a MiLB player for a fairly successful short-season (June - Septemeber) franchise. He made $1250 a month, he was being housed in a college dorm (and had to pay for that) and he had to do a lot of promotional work, the way the MLB players did. His likeness was on items sold and used in promotions at the stadium and he didn't get compensated for it. He didn't have any time to really even get out and see the city he was living in. I asked him what he did when the season was over and he shrugged and said "work at Costco." And at $20/hour, working at Costco for even 20 hours a week earned him MORE than he was making in the minor leagues.

 

I guess for a lot of these guys, they're college-age so living in a dorm and being paid ANYTHING to play baseball is awesome for them. Still, the minor league parks make money too, and it's a shame that more of it doesn't seem to filter back to the players.

Edited December 16, 2014 by AngelsSurfer

[AngelsLakersFan]

OK, pay them minimum wage but remove signing bonus' since your average entry level worker isn't given $500k to sign with McDonald's.

 

Dude harsh. Baseball is a $6 billion business and you want to take signing bonuses away from players in exchange for paying them minimum wage!?!?!

[ten ocho recon scout]

Owners are not out of control.

Players shouldn't make less.

Baseball is a $9 billion business.

This

Cant look at it as 'i would play baseball for free', or 'hes not making his money'. Players are property...in order to become propert they are purchased in a market. So its like when you get upside down on your house, it would be nice to have your payment lowered, but its not reality. And it wouldnt be fair to the bank. Some will say 'screw the bank', and i agree, but the bank also doesnt have the right to increase my mortgage if i build equity.

Its a business, all parties involved are in it to make money. Cant really fault any of them because im sure we all would do the same.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Its ironic that guys started juicing to make more money, and that in the long run its had almost the opposite effect.

If steroids were still rampant, youd have a much bigger market because guys played a lot longer. A guy like pujols (assuming hes clean) could do another cycle of roids and probably still be a .300/40 home run guy. So with that, he probably wouldnt have gotten the 10 year deal. Like trading nolan ryan for 2 15 game winners, you could have gotten a lesser name than pujols to hit for you for 4 years, and when his time is up, youre pretty much guaranteed to go to the winter meetings with 5 more 40 home run guys available.

Now that the game has cleaned up (we assume), teams know guys wont be very good in their 30s. So the youngster star players get locked up a lot earlier than they used to because these guys hardly ever hit the market.

Someone made a good point earlier in the thread. Player careers are very short when you think about it and before getting actually paid, they spend a lot of years not making a ton of money (more than us, but not big money). Then they have to wait 6 years to have a say in where they play, and to cash in big. A lot of them dont make it there. Im not saying we should feel sorry for them, but i cant fault them at all for trying to milk every cent they can from the owners. Same as i cant fault the owners for trying to milk every cent they can out of us. Its all a business.