I'm a bit disappointed with Tyler Skaggs

[mulwin444]

At this point, we don't know what kind of pitcher he's going to be yet so how about we just see what happens before labeling him one thing or another. Lackey would have his meltdown innings...Santana couldn't win on the road...Weaver would have 120 pitches through 5.2 innings. The Angels traded for talent and potential, not a finished product. This is going to take a few seasons to see exactly what they got in him.

[Splint7438]

Quality start equals 3 runs in six innings. Works out to a 4.50 era. I think we would be much happier with these exact same numbers if we weren't winning. He has a bright future. His work through innings 2-6 yesterday were excellent. One hit and only 51 pitches to get 15 outs. Zero walks. Twice conger thought he had the K when Skaggs walked lead off in seventh. Little bit of squeezing going on.

[Jay]

Skaggs and Santiago were basically acquired as "rotation depth" and Skaggs at least has outperformed that expectation.  Santiago on the other hand...

[rageous]

Skaggs and Santiago were basically acquired as "rotation depth" and Skaggs at least has outperformed that expectation.  Santiago on the other hand...

How do you figure?

Skaggs 4.65 ERA 6.49k/9

Santiago 4.32 ERA 8.64k/9

 

Santiago has a much better stuff and the higher upside.

[rageous]

I remember when we had people getting frustrated with Lackey when he struggled his first few seasons after his 2002 debut. Not everybody bursts onto the scene.

 

He's doing well enough and is still incredibly young. He shows good control but is still working on command(too many times he gets into quick 0-2 counts and then just gets too much of the plate on the next pitch)

 

He has good groundball rates, doesn't walk batters(2.37 BB/9). There's a lot to like. This is still just his first full season as an MLB starter, so growing pains should have been expected

The problem is that he's not doing well enough.

He's not even performing at league average and that's not even considering that he has been downright awful at home.

[rageous]

And here is a good article that could possibly explain his struggles this year.

According to the article his curve has been his worst pitch and his curve usage increases with men on base.

Skagg's line versus with bases empty .222/.274/.312

and line with men on base .304/.365/.468.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/tyler-skaggs-having-trouble-with-men-on-base/

[eaterfan]

How do you figure?

Skaggs 4.65 ERA 6.49k/9

Santiago 4.32 ERA 8.64k/9

 

Santiago has a much better stuff and the higher upside.

 

I'm not sure I agree with this. You left out walk rates which matter and groundball/flyball rate. Also Skaggs is 3.5 years younger than Santiago. That adds a lot of time on the upslope to improve.

 

Also Santiago averages about 5.5 innings per start where as Skaggs has gone 6.5 innings per start. That's important with how weak this bullpen was to start the year.

Edited July 21, 2014 by eaterfan

[Rescue&Restore]

Give the kid a break. He's young, he's got great stuff, he has stretches of dominance (look at most of his starts and he usually only gives up runs in one or two innings) he knows how to become a great starter. I think he has a ton of upside and can become a SOLID three starter definitely. Mike trout is a once in a lifetime type of player, so we can't let his excellence raise our expectations of young players to unreasonable heights. He's giving us chances to win, and now with our bullpen we can minimize his workload and let him worry less about going 7 or 8 and just push him through 5 or 6. Less innings= less pressure = a more relaxed tyler Skaggs= a better tyler Skaggs.

[Guest]

Skaggs and Santiago were basically acquired as "rotation depth" and Skaggs at least has outperformed that expectation.  Santiago on the other hand...

We got rid of 3/5ths of our rotation in the offseason, they weren't acquired as depth they were our #4 and #5 from day 1. Shoemaker was our depth which was terrifying before the season started. I've actualy been very pleasantly surprised with Shoemaker's performance this year.

 

That said before the season we should have obtained at least one more starter. I said back then that the Angels were only one starting pitcher injury away from disaster. IMO we shoudl have at least offered Vargas the qualifying offer. Worst case we would have overpaid for a #4 pitcher for just one year and had a bit more depth in the rotation. 

[Angel Oracle]

Skaggs, Santiago, and Shoemaker have good upsides.

Infinitely better than Hanson and Blanton had going into 2013, to be sure!

Now that a deep pen can allow Weaver to come out as he approaches 100 pitches, the big question mark is Nibs.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Angel Oracle

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

At the beginning of the season my hope was that Santiago & Skaggs could simply fill the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation because they had to and we had little or no depth beyond them.  Shoemaker has just provided much needed depth and been a pleasant surprise.  As far as Skaggs goes he's 23 years old, has pitched less than 200 innings in the majors and has some good stuff.  He started off very well but over time hitters adjusted and he needs to adjust and get used to the workload of a major league season. If he's pitching below league average in his arbitration years that's one thing but that isn't the case right now. 

Edited July 21, 2014 by Catwhoshatinthehat

[nikkachez]

He's been mediocre at best. A 4.65 ERA is well above league average, which, without checking, I believe is around 4.00. I knew there would be a learning curve, but I was hoping he'd be at least league average this year.

 

I don't mean to be hyperbolic, but I'm not seeing the future #2 starter we hoped for - maybe more like a #3 if everything breaks right (~3.50 ERA).

And I'm a bit disappointed in you for being disappointed in Skaggs. It's the guys first full year in the bigs and he's had flashes of domination. Oh and he just turned 23. This sounds like the same conversation Angel fans were having about Richards not that long ago. 

[Blarg]

The problem is that he's not doing well enough.

He's not even performing at league average and that's not even considering that he has been downright awful at home.

 

Pitchers other teams use as 5th starters

 

Oakland Straily 4.93 replaced by Hammel 9.00

Seattle Mauerer 5.70

Astros Oberholtzer 4.50

Rangers Sauders (released) 6.23, Ross (DL) 5.61, Baker 6.24

Blue Jays JA Happ 4.91

TB Rays Bedard 4.76

Yankees Whitley 5.10

Royals Chen 6.46

Tigers Smyly 3.80

Indians McAllistar 5.28

White Sox Rienzo 5.87

Dead Sox Doubront 5.17

Orioles Gonzalez 4.14

Twins... who the hell knows?

 

Looks like Skaggs is pitching better than most of the league for the role he has.

[Hollyw00d]

he's still very young, and he's still figuring it out.   he will get better and stronger mentally.  it ain't easy pitching in the AL west

[stormngt]

Remember when people said Richards was 5th Erath to be a trustworthy starter? Remember when people said Weaver would never be better than a #3 pitcher?

[eligrba]

Don't care what his stats are at the end of the year as long as he keeps the Angels close enough to win each game he pitches. 

 

He is not the one I would chose for a one game playoff.....at least not this year.

[ksangel]

_{Agree with Eric Notti's "looks like Skaggs is pitching better than most of the league for the role he has".}

 

_{Angels are 10-6 when he starts.}

 

_{Has gone 6+ innings in 13 of his starts.  Five innings in two of the other three starts. 2 2/3 in his other start.}

 

_{Two of the losses were blown by the bullpen.} 

 

_{One loss was when RA Dickey threw a four hit shut out (0-4 loss - Skaggs went 6 2/3 allowed 3 er's).}

 

_{One loss was to the A's where the score was 3-1 through six innings but Skaggs/bullpen gave up 3 runs in the 7th and the bullpen gave up seven runs after that.}

 

_{Another loss he went seven innings and gave up 2 er's.}

 

_{He did stink in Texas on May when he went 2 2/3 innings and gave up 6 er's - his shortest outing.}

[Season Over]

He's been ok, I like his potential. CJ has been the most disappointing starter this season by far.

[Angel Oracle]

He's been ok, I like his potential. CJ has been the most disappointing starter this season by far.

Agree, although it's mainly been since June 1.   Get back to the first two months Wilson, and it's all good again.

[WallyWorld]

Agree, although it's mainly been since June 1.   Get back to the first two months Wilson, and it's all good again.

 

this is from today. doesn't sound good re: CJ

 

“Some of the adjustment is going to have to be pain tolerance and things like that. And just learning how to use a somewhat-destabilized ankle.”

 

http://aldengonzalez.mlblogs.com/2014/07/21/erick-aybar-not-in-lineup-but-ready-to-go/

[rageous]

Did they ever state how he even sprained his ankle?

I thought it was just some made up injury to get him to work on his stuff.

[Blarg]

Did they ever state how he even sprained his ankle?

I thought it was just some made up injury to get him to work on his stuff.

 

Yeah, well that theory went over really well on twitter.

[failos]

On 7/20/2014 at 2:57 PM, Angelsjunky said:

He's been mediocre at best. A 4.65 ERA is well above league average, which, without checking, I believe is around 4.00. I knew there would be a learning curve, but I was hoping he'd be at least league average this year.

 

I don't mean to be hyperbolic, but I'm not seeing the future #2 starter we hoped for - maybe more like a #3 if everything breaks right (~3.50 ERA).

You fucking killed Skaggs you curse

[Angelsjunky]

9 minutes ago, Φαήλος said:

You fucking killed Skaggs you curse

You're bringing dark humor to a new level (or low) on this forum (but kinda funny, I must admit).

All I can say is that I'm part of an Illuminati bloodline and must exercise my powers or else the reptilian overlords will anally probe me.

[failos]

45 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

You're bringing dark humor to a new level (or low) on this forum (but kinda funny, I must admit).

All I can say is that I'm part of an Illuminati bloodline and must exercise my powers or else the reptilian overlords will anally probe me.

Not humor at all, just noticing a pattern. I hope I’m not becoming @Vladdylonglegs