Trading Cron and Shoemaker

[Blarg]

You can't blame Gen. Consensus. He didn't have a suitable mentor.

 

He was nothing after Captain Maddon left.

[RallyMo]

The Angels are 36-2 when leading after 8. Phillies are 26-3.

Whaaaaaaaat?

[eaterfan]

On the trading Cron front it might be prudent to act now. There are 3 really terrible GMs in baseball who seem to not understand advanced statistics at all... Ruben Amaro, Kevin Towers and possibly Minaya in SD. All three could be gone after the season meaning the Cron market could be reduced by 2/3. On the positive side of things rumors are Towers could head to SD if he isn't in AZ and LaRoussa's quotes so far seem to indicate that he will be operating the same way Towers is now.

[ItzTacosYerrp]

Cron adds some spookiness to the lineup

Aside from trout who else in the lineup does a pitcher dread facing?

Edited June 24, 2014 by ItzTacosYerrp

[xboom28x]

Why would anyone want to trade the one guy that is consistently going deeper into games making it so our bullpen hardly has to be used on the nights he pitches? Makes no sense.

[Adam]

The Angels are 36-2 when leading after 8. 

 

Is this the product of common core?

[eaterfan]

Cron adds some spookiness to the lineup

Aside from trout who else in the lineup does a pitcher dread facing?

 

I think Hamilton certainly has a lot of spookiness. But honestly I'd rather have a bunch of guys who wear out a pitcher and frustrate him with 8 pitch ABs than a guy who gets himself out a lot but is a threat to go deep.

[Angel Dog and Beer]

[mulwin444]

You don't trade Shoemaker at this point.  The Angels have gone a few years without solid, cost-controlled young pitchers who could provide some SP depth and we're slowly building that up again.  Shoemaker, Santiago, and Alvarez (from the Tigers) all have at least 4-5 starter potential and can fill in adequately for stretches.  At this point, I think, between Cron and Shoemaker, Cron is likelier trade bait but, even then, you won't get much for him unless he's packaged with someone else and the only thing you'd really want to trade Cron for is more young, cost-controlled pitching. 

[stormngt]

Might be the best response in the history of this board. Mind if quote you in the future?

this thread makes me want to kick several people in the dick.

[stormngt]

If you don't overpay for relief pitching than why the hell do we trade HK for relief pitching?

Why on earth would you trade Cron? He is the perfect DH for this team as currently constructed.

If anything trade Howie for relief pitching. Cron has raw power that you need if you are going anywhere in the postseason. If were trading Cron and Shoemaker we better get a superstar or an all star caliber player at the least. You dont overpay for relief pitchers ever.

[jshep]

The guy with a lower career ISO than Peter Bourjos at the time of the trade switched leagues and moved to a pitcher's park. His walk rate has stayed pretty much on par with his career rate, everything else has cratered..

I wonder if all the back and ankle injuries he's had are playing a part in this too.

Dude is just a train wreck

[Inside Pitch]

I wonder if all the back and ankle injuries he's had are playing a part in this too.

Dude is just a train wreck

 

Anything is possible.   I'm not a Freese fan, I've made fun of how awful he's been but I have a hard time believing he's as bad as he has looked.   It's possible he's having some lingering effects from the broken middle finger as well.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[Second Base]

Not that it counts for anything, and I still doubt it'll happen, but before the season started I predicted Kendrick would be dealt for relief pitching and Green or Lindsey would take over 2B.  When I made that prediction, I believed it would be because Kendrick had at some point been injured and Green hit in his absence while the Angels were 2-3 games back in the Wild Card. If they were to do that now, it would seem that the Angels are 2-3 games up in the Wild Card and Green got the majority of his playing time in LF. 

 

I just don't see it happening though.  Kendrick's a big part of this team, both on the field and in the clubhouse.  You don't just trade away a guy like that in the middle of the pennant race.  If you do it any time, it's in the offseason, which is when I believe Kendrick will be traded, next offseason. 

[ukyah]

Might be the best response in the history of this board. Mind if quote you in the future?

 

 

 

i'd be honored. on an unrelated note can somebody prove to me that the angels are 36-2 when leading after 8, because that's going to blow my mind. i don't even see how that's possible, unless our record in extra inning games is unbelievable and i don't think that's the case either.

[Lou]

We are 5-4 in extra inning games

[Blarg]

The one against Texas doesn't count because it's just not the same as a few years ago.

[Hubs]

This thread is wacko. banana pants. Ridiculous.

 

First, NO to Papelbon. Are you freaking kidding me? This guy is the highest paid closer in the game and he's horrible. Seriously. He's not a significant upgrade over Joe Smith. And he costs $13M a season and is likely to have that option vest, meaning the Angels would be paying 32 ish million dollars for a closer for the next three years. That's not in the budget.

 

Papelbon is doing well this year in Philly, but my Phillies fan friends would be delirious with happiness if they were able to trade his contract. I also dislike his attitude, his horrific meltdowns in Boston, his antics on the mound.

 

Just no.

 

Second. Cron is a valuable trade piece, as is Green. I don't think Shoemaker brings a high return. I'd be okay with trading these guys only if what they bring back is worth it. For instance, when Jim Bowden proposed Cron and Yarborough for David Price. The Angels starting pitching has been good this year, but Price is a huge upgrade. 

 

Third. The Angels need two relievers. They need a proven closer and a dominant left hander. Should they keep Hector Santiago in the pen, I'd still like to add two pieces. 

 

The Pen is currently:

 

Smith

Frieri

Jepsen

Santiago

Morin

Carpenter

Rasmus

 

Out of those seven guys, two are likely to be replaced before August 1. One more could go back in any trade (either Frieri or Jepsen). Frieri is a cost controlled closer, something a lot of teams with lower budgets would want. If he could straighten things out. He's not being paid Papelbon or Johnson money.

 

I'd think that Bedrosian or Alvarez (is he still hurt?) will be back up before the All-Star Break. Kohn as well. 

 

The issue with trading for a legit BP arm is that it's going to cost you. Cron is probably too valuable to the Angels right now to give up for a reliever, unless it's a shut down closer and they think Pujols / Hamilton / Calhoun is a platoon at DH with Cowgill, Green, and Navarro also figuring in the mix. 

 

Fourth. Kendrick is not being traded for pitching help. He's too valuable and has been good (and bad) at the plate. He's under contract for next season, and it's not a small amount. Taylor Lindsey is hitting around .230 in SLC, which means he may need another year there. Lindsey though may be trade bait, considering they like Green, have Kendrick, and like Yarborough.

 

Lindsey is more likely to be dealt for prospects.

 

I'd trade Lindsey AND Cron to the Padres for Street, Torres, and Smith. It would cost more than that likely, but I'd do it. It solves all of the Angels issues and is a huge cost cutting measure from the Padres end.

[Tank]

i'm in favor of keeping players that help the team win.

 

just wanted to get that on the record.

[fan_since79]

Papelbon is hardly "horrible".

[Taylor]

Shoemaker should have gotten a shot a long time ago.  At least early last year.  His stuff was a horrible match for SLC.  His best pitch - the splitter/change - did not split nor change at high altitude.  

 

Take hold of this - it's the value of his splitter/change per 100 pitches. PFG

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=30&type=7&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,d

 

He's not going anywhere.

 

I'm having trouble finding complete minors splits for Shoemaker, but this year in AAA, he has a 5.09 ERA at home and a 9.00 ERA on the road. Granted, that's in only 8 road IP.

[Hardball13]

Let's not forget that Shoemaker had to be stretched out in AAA. He started the season in the BP and did not pitch more than 2.1 innings at one time while in relief before being optioned to AAA. His starts in AAA were the following innings pitched: 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, 6.2, and 7.0. Maybe he had to work himself back into starting form. Does it really matter what he did in AAA this year considering what he is doing at the major league level? I tend to think not since the goal of every MLB team is to have players step up and help them win games. Maybe he was "working on some things" when he got sent down just like every other pitcher does. The proof is in the results since being recalled. I would think that the Angels have to get the starting pitcher they really want before Shoemaker is included in any deal. He may be more valuable to some other teams than we think. Time will tell.

[beatlesrule]

I'd trade Kendrick or Aybar way before I even think of trading the younger guys.  If you trade Shoemaker and Cron, you better be getting a top SP in return.  No relief guy is worth those 2.  Trade Kendrick for a RP and plug in Green at 2nd.

[Bruce Nye]

If we're thinking about trading regressing players, the team has a 1B that I'd like to see in a trade.  Hope the $200 million still owed to him doesn't present an obstacle.

[stormngt]

Shoemaker has beaten Price, Lee, Darvish, and dint he beat the Detroit Cy you winner last year (can't spell his name). Hell he is facing the opposing teams Aces and winning. How the hell do you trade him for a relief pitcher? And who really cares what he did I minor league if he is having this success in the majors?