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Trading Cron and Shoemaker


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Look at his numbers this year for a sub-par Phillies team. He's also been consistently good throughout his career.

2.36 ERA in 557 games. 4.4 SO/BB ratio.

He's better than Frieri, but is he $20M better? (Maybe $33M if his contract vests, which I believe it will)

The Angels are 36-2 when leading after 8. Phillies are 26-3.

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In regards to the OP's original point, im not for it, but I was just thinking the other day which one of the young guys might in fact be dangled.

Shoemaker needs to stay. Even if he regresses, we're way too thin on arms to move him. Cron, who I like a lot and have been waiting to get here, is someone who I could see being flipped just because for the near and mid term we're fine on offense.

The one I could very much see being flipped is green (not saying im for it). But hes young, cheap, and blocked here. With all that hes also likely to bring back more than a cowgill.

So im not advocating trading anyone right now. But I can see the situation coming up someone is (and we really need a bullpen arm). Green might be able to replace howie (bat wise at least), but howies age and money (though its not at all a bad comtract) is probably less appealing to a team calling this year quits than green.

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In regards to the OP's original point, im not for it, but I was just thinking the other day which one of the young guys might in fact be dangled.

Shoemaker needs to stay. Even if he regresses, we're way too thin on arms to move him. Cron, who I like a lot and have been waiting to get here, is someone who I could see being flipped just because for the near and mid term we're fine on offense.

The one I could very much see being flipped is green (not saying im for it). But hes young, cheap, and blocked here. With all that hes also likely to bring back more than a cowgill.

So im not advocating trading anyone right now. But I can see the situation coming up someone is (and we really need a bullpen arm). Green might be able to replace howie (bat wise at least), but howies age and money (though its not at all a bad comtract) is probably less appealing to a team calling this year quits than green.

I still think Green's future is at 3b.  

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^I really hope it is doc. And to be clear, I dont want to trade him, I just think if anyone goes hes the most likely (maybe cron, who I also want to keep).

But isnt the knock on green hes not good defense wise? I havent seen him play very much (just box scores) so I dont know at all if he is or is not. If he can be just average glove wise I would like him to replace freese asap. Maybe next year, with lucho replacing mcdonald as the late inning defense wiz.

Especially if cowart is still looking like he wont be a 3B, then I cross fingers on both hands green can be a passabable 3B

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There is no way I trade anything of value for Papelbon and his contract. The Phillies must include offset dollars if those hideous options are reached.

I would absolutely trade Cron if the right deal presented itself. He doesn't take a walk and his only position where he is not a defensive liability in the lineup is at DH. Considering how little power there is in MLB now it would be interesting to see what Cron could fetch.

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I'd hope the Angels as an organization are past the point where they make such short-sighted moves. Shoe's pitching over his head right now, but that doesn't mean he isn't a solid 5th starter. Cron is also this team's DH and Pujols' safety net at 1B. You don't trade him either.

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Why on earth would you trade Cron?  He is the perfect DH for this team as currently constructed.  

 

If anything trade Howie for relief pitching.  Cron has raw power that you need if you are going anywhere in the postseason.  If were trading Cron and Shoemaker we better get a superstar or an all star caliber player at the least.  You dont overpay for relief pitchers ever.

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Plus if you dish Shoe, you weaken one area of the club to improve another for a net zero.  

 

JD has to find a way to parlay the 2b depth in this org into a pen arm.  

 

Agree. You don't trade away young cost controlled players, you trade from depth if you can.

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there is nothing about Crons' numbers that scream regression.  He might slump at some point, but I expect him to be somewhere around where he is right now as a major leaguer.  Maybe even better.  He's a cost controlled power hitter with poor on base skills and solid contact ability for a guy with his pop.  He's not going anywhere 

 

Shoemaker should have gotten a shot a long time ago.  At least early last year.  His stuff was a horrible match for SLC.  His best pitch - the splitter/change - did not split nor change at high altitude.  

 

Take hold of this - it's the value of his splitter/change per 100 pitches. PFG

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=sta&lg=all&qual=30&type=7&season=2014&month=0&season1=2014&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&sort=15,d

 

He's not going anywhere.

 

Nailed it.

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I'd just like to know what the heck happened to Freese's power?  Did he give up lifting or something?

 

The guy with a lower career ISO than Peter Bourjos at the time of the trade switched leagues and moved to a pitcher's park.   His walk rate has stayed pretty much on par with his career rate, everything else has cratered..  

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General Consensus was a badass.

Brush up on your Civil War trivia buddy

That is bullshit. He had overwhelming forces at Little Round Top and surrendered to a school teacher, Chamberlain, and a bunch of volunteers that ran out of ammunition. His WAR rating was propped up by false stats from Bull Run and the second battle of Manassas where he had behind his artillery. Dude never showed up in clutch situations. His RISP (rebels in shooting position) sucked.
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That is bullshit. He had overwhelming forces at Little Round Top and surrendered to a school teacher, Chamberlain, and a bunch of volunteers that ran out of ammunition. His WAR rating was propped up by false stats from Bull Run and the second battle of Manassas where he had behind his artillery. Dude never showed up in clutch situations. His RISP (rebels in shooting position) sucked.

Just goes to show you he lacked scouting his opposition before he faced them. His soldiers were right. "Don't we scout our enemy ever?"

Edited by Kevin
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