Trading Cron and Shoemaker

[Inside Pitch]

I'm having trouble finding complete minors splits for Shoemaker, but this year in AAA, he has a 5.09 ERA at home and a 9.00 ERA on the road. Granted, that's in only 8 road IP.

 

Home and Away splits for Shoe aren't really going to tell you much, you have to look at the more advanced stuff and the park adjusted rates to get an idea of how he was performing.  http://statcorner.com/pitch.php?id=533167

 

Not sure if that will take you to where all his numbers are but, if you click on "show minor leagues", it will open up more numbers.  If you hover over each set of numbers and it will give you the league average.   His raw stats may look pedestrian, even bad, but when you compare him to the league it tells a completely different story.

 

Looking at raw stats can be misleading as a whole, when it concerns minor league numbers it's often much much worse.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Inside Pitch

[adenhart34]

You are crazy

 

This exact same thing was posted 5 years ago when Aybar was hitting .320. He just had that monster doubleheader at KC and someone posted that Aybar should be the centerpiece of a trade for Halladay.

 

The consensus then was that Aybar was untouchable and it was "crazy" to trade him away for anyone.

 

Shoemaker will regress, if we can get good value for him do it.

[TroutBaseball]

You gotta respect a message board post that references another message board post from 5 years ago.  You would have gotten double points if you had included a link to that comment.

[adenhart34]

You gotta respect a message board post that references another message board post from 5 years ago.  You would have gotten double points if you had included a link to that comment.

 

Hah, it reminded me of that for some reason

[mtangelsfan]

This exact same thing was posted 5 years ago when Aybar was hitting .320. He just had that monster doubleheader at KC and someone posted that Aybar should be the centerpiece of a trade for Halladay.

 

The consensus then was that Aybar was untouchable and it was "crazy" to trade him away for anyone.

 

Shoemaker will regress, if we can get good value for him do it.

 

I might be more inclined to agree if our pitching depth was better, but it isn't.  We are one injury away from Wade Leblanc starting.  No thanks.

[eaterfan]

I hear Blanton is available.

[m0nkey]

If the angels had a bunch of David carpenters (the angel one) in the bullpen, I still wouldn't trade Kendrick for a relief pitcher unless his last name is kimbrel

[Inside Pitch]

 

Shoemaker will regress, if we can get good value for him do it.

 

 

Ill bite.  What will he regress to?   His Salt Lake City ERAs?

[ettin]

Ill bite. What will he regress to? His Salt Lake City ERAs?

I'll answer: He'll regress to his 2.96 SIERA or his 3.01 xFIP.

[tdawg87]

Shoemaker has proven to be, at worst, good depth for the rotation. For a team that lacks depth in that area, that is extremely important.

 

Thus far, the Angels have been fortunate enough to have minimal injuries to the staff. Just imagine if Richards goes down. Or Richards AND Weaver. Then we'll be wondering why in the sweet **** the Angels traded Shoemaker and why Wade Leblanc is making 5 consecutive major league starts in the year 2014.

[worldofx]

I don't care if Cron or Shoemaker are performing over their heads, you don't trade cheap cost-controlled power or starting pitchers for relievers.

 

That's what the Alexi Amaristas of the world are for.

[Taylor]

Shoemaker has beaten Price, Lee, Darvish, and dint he beat the Detroit Cy you winner last year (can't spell his name). Hell he is facing the opposing teams Aces and winning. How the hell do you trade him for a relief pitcher? And who really cares what he did I minor league if he is having this success in the majors?

 

The pitchers he's "beaten" are irrelevant. Remember when Ramon Ortiz out-dueled Pedro Martinez? 

[Erstad Grit]

I'll bite. How about Cron / Shoemaker for Gerrit Cole?

 

We get a young great SP locked up.

 

Pirates get a inexpensive SP who is pitching great and their 1b power. 

 

I honestly just don't see the right scenario where I would trade these guys but tried to make one.  

[Lou]

This exact same thing was posted 5 years ago when Aybar was hitting .320. He just had that monster doubleheader at KC and someone posted that Aybar should be the centerpiece of a trade for Halladay.

 

The consensus then was that Aybar was untouchable and it was "crazy" to trade him away for anyone.

 

Shoemaker will regress, if we can get good value for him do it.

Not when we have absolutely no depth in starting pitching.

[Lou]

I'll bite. How about Cron / Shoemaker for Gerrit Cole?

 

We get a young great SP locked up.

 

Pirates get a inexpensive SP who is pitching great and their 1b power. 

 

I honestly just don't see the right scenario where I would trade these guys but tried to make one.

Because Pitt would laugh at the idea?

[stormngt]

This exact same thing was posted 5 years ago when Aybar was hitting .320. He just had that monster doubleheader at KC and someone posted that Aybar should be the centerpiece of a trade for Halladay.

 

The consensus then was that Aybar was untouchable and it was "crazy" to trade him away for anyone.

 

Shoemaker will regress, if we can get good value for him do it.

Shoemaker is pitching like an Ace right now.  Of course he is not going to sustain it.  However, there isn't a GM in the league who knows he isn't pitching over his head.  The question is, will he sustain his performance enough as a 5th pitcher.  In case I think he can sustain it for the year at least.

[ukyah]

I don't care if Cron or Shoemaker are performing over their heads, you don't trade cheap cost-controlled power or starting pitchers for relievers.

 

That's what the Alexi Amaristas of the world are for.

 

 

there's been a lot of posts in this thread that i generally agree with, but this one fully summarizes my feelings.

[stormngt]

The pitchers he's "beaten" are irrelevant. Remember when Ramon Ortiz out-dueled Pedro Martinez? 

It is certainly relevant.  First, Ortiz out dueled Pedro ONCE.  Shoemaker has done it several times.

Second, Ortiz was a quality mlb pitcher.  He just isn't an Ace  No one think s Shoemaker is an Ace.  Of course he is going to come down to earth.  However, for a team who is one year removed from having Hanson, Blanton, and even Barry Enright start for them I would say it is insane to even think about trading Shoemaker.

[Lou]

So everyone clamored for Ibanez to be released so Cron could get ABs and after 2 games some are proposing we trade him.

I love AW

[tdawg87]

we're a bunch of morans

[Turd Ferguson]

I would be disappointed if anyone other than Trout was considered untouchable.  I think you have to consider anyone/everyone in the right deal.  With that said, I think to deal either guy at this point, we would clearly need to "win" the deal.  e.g., I wouldn't advocate dealing Shoemaker for Huston Street or some other rental closer equivalent.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Turd Ferguson

[YouthofToday]

Many on this board seem to think Cron's sample size so far is an indication of how he will hit whilst under team control. It's not.

If you can land a key addition that has a decent contract through at least the 2015 season you must consider parting with Cron.

[Taylor]

Second, Ortiz was a quality mlb pitcher.  

 

No he wasn't. Career ERA of 4.95. Career WHIP of 1.43.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Many on this board seem to think Cron's sample size so far is an indication of how he will hit whilst under team control. It's not.

If you can land a key addition that has a decent contract through at least the 2015 season you must consider parting with Cron.

this.

I like cron. Have been waiting for him to get here since he was drafted. That said, though he has pop, his on base skills are a bit lacking (which made aome on here hate trumbo). His defense is probably below trumbos.

Just as people here applauded the trumbo trade, I would welcome a cron trade if it made us better. Thats not to say im advocating trading him, but I think green could replace him (with more versatility).

That being said, if green can bring back someone better, I would prefer that.

And finally, if neither can be flipped for somethinf we need more, im happy to have both here.

[Docwaukee]

this team needs a pen arm and it's not gonna cost Shoe or Cron.