We never had it so good...

[AzHaloFan]

I sometimes read posts and wonder why are we all griping SO much. Don't we have better things to flip out over in April!? As a kid and young adult, being an Angels fan was never about a winning season. It was JUST about going to a ball game, enjoying the surroundings and hoping we won the game I was at. Maybe I was just young, but what I WAS more than anything was "without expectations".

Winning the whole thing in 2002 was so far beyond my wildest dreams, I can't even put it into words. Winning back to back western titles and going to the playoffs 3 times in 5 years was unbelievable. Winning back to Back to BACK 07-09 - are you kidding me!? I have to admit that after 2005 (when we SHOULD have made it to the series, thanks Doug Eddings) when we couldn't make it confidently deep into the playoffs, I became fine with getting in and winning a series. Shoot, sweeping Boston in 2009 WAS my WS - I truly didn't even care about passing the Yankees that year because sweeping Boston in the playoffs was probably up there with winning another title - something I never thought would ever happen.

Not to get all "history lesson" on everyone but my point is, we as fans, have NEVER had it so good! We went from 1961 to 1979 before we even made the playoffs. From then, we made it only two more times over the next 7 years. That means 3 playoff appearances in FORTY years!! Since 2002 this franchise and it's fans have had, an 11 year stretch where we made the playoffs 6 times, 5 as West Champs (1 repeat and a 3 peat), reached the ALCS 3 times and won a World Championship!! ALL this after a 16 year playoff drought, 2 ownership changes,3 uniform changes, a players strike...need I go on?? If you would have told ME in 2002, opening day, that those were things that were GOING to happen, over the next 11 years I'd have looked at you like you were a drunk Red Sox fan.

I still get pissed when we lose dumb games. Angels blood runs thru my veins and has since 1979 (read my signature). At the same time, I'm not going to gripe n b!tch and whine when we are 5 games down in April because ya know what bro, I've BEEN there, DONE that. We have 144 games to go and the baseball season is more like an Ironman, than it is a simple marathon. I'm likely in the vast minority, but I am just happy to be an Angels fan.

[mtangelsfan]

Meh, I've been a fan since 1974.  Been around for a long time.  Remember good times and bad times.  Fans have always handled things differently.  I think its perfectly understandable to be frustrated with this start considering its the same start as the last couple of years when we weren't very good. 

 

I'm apt to be positive for the most part and also try very hard to make my complaints logical.  I know that many fans get crazy and illogical.  Myself and others will call them out for that, just like fans who rarely, if ever, are willing to see crap when they see are called out.  Its what makes a message board a message board.  Without it, you have basically zero discussion.

 

For the life of me, I don't know why one Angel fan should be happy with what we have seen from the team as a whole.  Sure there are some bright spots, especially the young starters, but overall they have been pretty uninspiring. 

[Homebrewer]

I went to my first Angel game when the ballpark opened in 1966. I was 12. My family had season tickets from 68 to 99. I will tell you something, there were some very fun years, and while the team was up and down for that decade, and almost every subsequent decade, little was expected and the goal was to have fun at the ballpark and enjoy the wins when they happened.

 

The fans and the expectations changed a lot in 2002...but the time it ALL changed was when Arte Moreno took the microphone and announced that he was building the West Coast Yankees. THAT is where the change came, not from "spoiled fans" but from the owner and his vision and promises.

Got news for ya..there is no going back to those "good old days" when winning was a by-product, and the players were nice guys who came to your church and tried to sell season seats to the congregation.. 

[Homebrewer]

Another thing about the "good old days" that most people who talk about didn't experience....the Stadium was not filled by Angel fans. It was filled by Twins Fans, Whitesox fans, Tiger fans, Yankee fans, etc. Almost everyone in the OC was from somewhere and brought their fandom and loyalties with them when they bought their tract homes in Fountain Valley and Garden Grove.

 

The stadium was never packed with Angel fans until a few years like 79, 86, and 2002...and that's a fact. I was there. I grew up in that ballpark.

[jsnpritchett]

 

For the life of me, I don't know why one Angel fan should be happy with what we have seen from the team as a whole.  Sure there are some bright spots, especially the young starters, but overall they have been pretty uninspiring. 

 

Exactly. 

 

And just b/c I don't cheer every move or think that everything is hunky-dory, that doesn't make me less of a fan.  

[19HALO71]

Thank God!!! we didn't have the internet or text messaging in the 70's and 80's. Those were some pretty lousy years as an Angels fan. But those are also years I would never want to change.

[fan_since79]

15 Years in the Desert (from the old forum)

 

2001 Angels…A 3-run double by the Rangers' Ruben Mateo in our home opener in the first inning, and it was downhill from there... 75 wins, 87 losses, 3rd place, finished 41 games back...lost 19 of our final 21 games.

2000 Angels....82-80, 3rd place, finished 9.5 games back….only 4 games back as late as Sept. 1st....favorite game, Aug. 18 at Yankee Stadium, Darin Erstad wins it in the 11th inning with a solo home run.

1999 Angels...70 wins, 92 losses, 4th place, finished 25 games behind....went 16-38 in July/August, including a stretch of 4-23 from July 16 to Aug. 13, and another stretch of 1-11 from Aug. 24 to Sept. 5…oddly enough, won 9 of our final 12 games.

1998 Angels...85-77, 2nd place, finished 3 games back...tied for first place on Sept. 20, then got swept by Texas by scores of 9-1, 9-1, and 7-1….Rangers win division.

1997 Angels...84-78, 2nd place, finished 6 games back...tied for first place on Aug. 15, then went 15-22 for the remainder of the season.

1996 Angels...70-91, 4th place, finished 19.5 games behind...7-game losing streak in Sept., finished 5-13.

1995 Angels…Luis Sojo, Randy Johnson….nothing more needs to be said.

1994 Angels….47-68 (strike shortened season), 4th place, finished 5.5 games back….lost 14 of our final 19 games...Kenny Rogers of Texas pitched a perfect game against us on July 28.

1993 Angels...71-91, 5th place (7 teams in West Division), finished 23 games back...two games behind at the All-star break, then went 28-48 in 2nd half of season.

1992 Angels...72-90, 5th place, finished 24 games back...18 games behind at the All-Star break...went 3-15 at one point, then later went 2-17. In those latter 19 games, we scored a total of 41 runs...scored only 579 runs for the season while allowing 679.

1991 Angels...81-81, 7th place, finished 14 games back….tied for first on July 2, then went 9-25 over the next 34 games to find ourselves 14 games behind on August 12.

1990 Angels...80-82, 4th place, finished 23 games back...0.5 games back on April 15, then went 6-17 to fall 12 games behind on May 12.

1989 Angels...91-71, 3rd place...finished 8 games back....only 2.5 games behind on Sept. 20, then lost 8 of our final 10 games, including a 4-game sweep by Cleveland.

1988 Angels...75-87, 4th place, finished 29 games back...lost 18 of our final 20 games, including the last 12 in a row.

1987 Angels...75-87, 6th place, finished 10 games back....Tied for first on May 12, only to go 3-13 and fall 7.5 back on May 31…..only 3 games back on Aug. 31, then went 2-10 to fall 8.5 games behind on Sept. 14.
 

 

[mulwin444]

To be fair, the expectations are now different because that's what we have been told to "expect" form Arte and Co - a playoff team.  Even when Gene Autry still owned the team and he started building the '79 - '86 playoff team, there was never a defined focus nor was there the expectation that we could compete against the elite of the AL/Dodgers.  The '86 and '95 respective playoff collapses sent the franchise into the 7th ring of Hell which wasn't helped by Jackie Autry's "small market" mentality.  Disney took over and there was some hope that with some coporate money we could start playing with big boys but, after an initial Moo Vaughn "big splash", they were operated like any other Disney asset.  Lucky for them Bill Stoneman was GM and he pulled together a solid team with a combo of key trades, FA signings and home grown talent.  Even with all their hard work, Eisner and Autry both had that "we won?!" look on their face when Erstad closed the final out in his glove.  It wasn't until Arte an his gauntlet-throwing signing of the '04 offseason that it seemed like we had an owner willing to put his money where his mouth was leading us.  Say what you want about the good 'ol days but both the expectations and the bar have been set higher by recent success and firm promises. 

[fan_since79]

 Even with all their hard work, Eisner and Autry both had that "we won?!" look on their face when Erstad closed the final out in his glove. 

 

When Kenny Lofton hit that fastball from Percival, my first thought was "oh no, game-tying 3-run homer". The pitch was just a little too high for Lofton to get it out.

 

What an incredible relief and joy it was to see us win that Series!

 

[Chuck]

Thank God!!! we didn't have the internet or text messaging in the 70's and 80's. Those were some pretty lousy years as an Angels fan. But those are also years I would never want to change.

 

Can you imagine if AngelsWin.com existed in the 70's? Damn! 

[WallyWorld]

I appreciate the attempt to put things in perspective, but the line of thinking from the OP really irks me.  It's almost like a fear of success.  I think a lot of fans are more comfortable with mediocrity because it's what they're used to from their team.  If one were to take this mentality and apply it to the rest of their life, they would never improve anything about themselves or their situation.  "Well, I've had a crappy job for most of my life, so I shouldn't be too upset about having a crappy job now." That's ridiculous.

 

The fact is, 2002 was the start of a complete sea change for the organization, the likes of which is rarely seen in sports. For the most part, just like life, teams are divided into haves and have-nots, and though things can change for short periods of time, they usually revert back.  Sometimes though, people win the lottery.  2002 was the megamillions jackpot, and for a while it completely changed the Angels organization and their stature in the baseball and sports world.  The reason so many fans, including myself, are so frustrated and down on this team right now, is that instead of holding on to that momentum, they are reversing it with a series of bad decisions (Pujols & Hamilton, Wells & Greinke trades, holding on to the same manager and pitching coach too long).  It's a massive opportunity that feels like it's slipping away, if it's not gone already.

 

So stop with the "if you think things are bad now, you're spoiled and/or ignorant, because this team used to REALLY suck." It's an incredibly sad and depressing attitude (I know, ironic, since you think I'm the depressing one) to have. It's okay to expect better.  It really is.

[tomsred]

I've followed the Angels since '78, what's changed for me is one big thing.  That one big thing is social media, fans now have an outlet to voice their opinions and criticisms without much control or moral responsibility.  It's a really precious thing to have this ability to criticize and be out spoken about the teams they follow.  Some of it gets way out of hand because it is made with little control, and with no consequence as to what is said.  There is a certain percentage of people who have no idea how offensive some of their remarks can be, and even if they know they are they excuse them under free speech privileges.  So my big hope is that we all learn to criticize responsibly and professionally.

[jsnpritchett]

I've followed the Angels since '78, what's changed for me is one big thing.  That one big thing is social media, fans now have an outlet to voice their opinions and criticisms without much control or moral responsibility.  It's a really precious thing to have this ability to criticize and be out spoken about the teams they follow.  Some of it gets way out of hand because it is made with little control, and with no consequence as to what is said.  There is a certain percentage of people who have no idea how offensive some of their remarks can be, and even if they know they are they excuse them under free speech privileges.  So my big hope is that we all learn to criticize responsibly and professionally.

 

Moral responsibility?  Wow.  Come down off of the high-horse, please.  We're talking about sports here.  I think you're giving it TOO MUCH weight.

[AzHaloFan]

You know, perhaps this is what happens when you become an out of market fan. You aren't buying season tickets any longer, you aren't spending 25% of your income on Halo related materials, you aren't able to watch 162 games and go through each and every single good/bad pitch throughout a 162 game season.

 

This wasn't meant to call anyones fanhood out nor was it a call to accept mediocrity. Of COURSE we can do better and of COURSE that's what I want. 11 good years aren't going to "hold me over" for another 20. I was just trying to put a little perspective on the matter.

 

Someone mentioned how where would this site be if it had started in the 70's or 80's?? Where would this site be if not for the social media environment we find ourselves in today where you can rant and cheer for anything you want to and be noticed by 100's if not 100's of thousands within a few minutes?? Who knows.

 

And Ukyah, you are the first person to call anything I've ever said on this forum "BS", congratulations.

[mtangelsfan]

Moral responsibility?  Wow.  Come down off of the high-horse, please.  We're talking about sports here.  I think you're giving it TOO MUCH weight.

 

 

 I didn't know morals had some kind of borders they stayed in.

 

I think when you make unfounded accusations against players that crosses a moral line.  I think when you make personal attacks against players, coaches and their families that is a moral lapse

[markb]

From patronizing, to condescension, to morality and free speech.  This thread calls out the ranting but it's really just the tails side of the melodrama coin-flip.  

 

And ukyah quoted Chuck's post, which feels a bit non-new-experiency.  

[tdawg87]

How long you have been a fan has nothing to do with how "smart" or good of a fan you are. If you root for your team you are a good fan. I think a lot of older fans have a massive superiority complex. I honestly could not care less how long you have been a fan nor do I care how much worse things were in the past. Times and expectations change.

Should the Angels never get new fans? Should they have the same fanbase who has been through all the bad times so that way when new bad times come it isn't a big deal?

I also love how the GD thread for today has been labeled the "cheer" thread, as if anyone who vents during the game doesn't actually cheer on the team.

[yk9001]

Angelswin.com:  The Moral Failings

[jsnpritchett]

I also love how the GD thread for today has been labeled the "cheer" thread, as if anyone who vents during the game doesn't actually cheer on the team.

 

Yep. 

[fan_since79]

 I think a lot of older fans have a massive superiority complex. I honestly could not care less how long you have been a fan nor do I care how much worse things were in the past. Times and expectations change.

 

 

 

"You talkin' to me?!"

[tdawg87]

Yes. You have it in your username you filthy superfan!

[fan_since79]

But AO's been a fan since 1966. Go pick on him!

 

LOL.

[tomsred]

How long you have been a fan has nothing to do with how "smart" or good of a fan you are. If you root for your team you are a good fan. I think a lot of older fans have a massive superiority complex. I honestly could not care less how long you have been a fan nor do I care how much worse things were in the past. Times and expectations change.

Should the Angels never get new fans? Should they have the same fanbase who has been through all the bad times so that way when new bad times come it isn't a big deal?

I also love how the GD thread for today has been labeled the "cheer" thread, as if anyone who vents during the game doesn't actually cheer on the team.

 

The point of the "Cheer thread" has nothing to do with it being better than the Vent thread.  The fans are no worse or better on either thread.  Believe it or not there are posters (and potential posters) here who just plain tire of being negative.  Baseball is supposed to be all about fun.  It's not something serious to me at all.  The Cheer thread was meant to provide an alternative for those who want to lighten things up and remain positive.  That is all it was meant to be.

Edited April 22, 2014 by tomsred

[Docwaukee]

who gives a shit.  root for the team however you want.  vent.  cheer.  stick your thumb up your butt. 

 

try to remember that the players/coaches are human beings trying to do their job and that there are other human beings here on the other side of those keyboards looking for a place to participate. 

 

sometimes we forget and have a bad day.  sometimes so do they. 

 

some could stand to be less critical.  some could stand to be more forthright. 

 

I come here to talk about Angels baseball.  Some days I enjoy it.  Other days I don't. 

 

Can't we get past worrying all the **** time about who it positive and who is negative?

[Lhalo]

root for the team however you want.  vent.  cheer.  stick your thumb up your butt. 

 

Shakespeare?