Angels sign Brandon Drury (2 years, $17 million), DFA Oliver Ortega

[BTH]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

I wonder if we could get Nico Hoerner for Rengifo and either: Jose Suarez or Ky Bush?

Was told we offered Ky Bush and Denzer Guzman for Hoerner a few weeks back, but the deal went nowhere. 

Fletcher and Soto are now our backup MI's. 

The Cubs have plenty of SP depth.  Steele, Taillon, Stroman, Smyly, Hendricks, Sampson, Thompson, Wesneski, Assad, and Killian. They may not be recognizable names, but if you look deeper into these guys, they're all solid.

They need hitters, and I don't see why they'd trade Hoerner when they're building their team around pitching + defense, and Hoerner is one of the best defensive 2B in MLB.

[ScottT]

Trading Ward would be silly.  

[Docwaukee]

I really hope they don't trade Rengifo now.  

[BTH]

5 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I really hope they don't trade Rengifo now.  

I'd be OK with it, depending on the return.

I wouldn't just give him away because a couple infielders have been added.

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

Gubi doesn’t know jack about what’s going on. 

Maybe, although Vasgersian was beating the Drury to the Angels drum the past few days, and then they obviously signed him today.

It seems like Perry loves to get input from people, so I wonder if he ever confides in Gubicza, since he's a former MLB pitcher who works for the team.

[rafibomb]

22 minutes ago, Docwaukee said:

I really hope they don't trade Rengifo now.  

I agree but Whats your reason? I see alot of people wanting to trade Rengifo now after this signing.

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

I agree but Whats your reason? I see alot of people wanting to trade Rengifo now after this signing.

because I love the depth we have have we're gonna need every bit of it considering how just normal mlb seasons go and with the Angel's luck on top of that.  I've mentioned it in a few other threads, but look what happens if you have to tap into the minors for pretty much any spot in the lineup.  It's dreadful.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

4 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Could Ward bring back a SP?

That depends what kind of SP you’re talking about. He definitely has some value though. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

 

Vs RHP: 1B Walsh 2B Urshela SS Rengifo 3B Rendon

Vs LHP: 1B Drury 2B Rengifo SS Fletcher 3B Rendon

Rengifo killed lefties last season. Killed them. Like a .900 OPS IIRC.

3 hours ago, ukyah said:

i understand, but i disagree. you can not just walk away from the package you would get for ohtani. contention doesn't matter in this case. you have to get the franchise altering value.

I am not sure about your definition of “franchise altering,” but bear in mind that he’ll be a two-month rental at that point. 
 

And I’m going to be curious to see how much a team puts a short-term, playoff-race value on Ohtani if he still doesn’t pitch on 4 days rest at that point. 
 

Obviously he’ll be valuable but perhaps not as much as you think. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

50 minutes ago, ScottT said:

Trading Ward would be silly.  

That depends who you get back.

[ukyah]

29 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

Rengifo killed lefties last season. Killed them. Like a .900 OPS IIRC.

I am not sure about your definition of “franchise altering,” but bear in mind that he’ll be a two-month rental at that point. 
 

And I’m going to be curious to see how much a team puts a short-term, playoff-race value on Ohtani if he still doesn’t pitch on 4 days rest at that point. 
 

Obviously he’ll be valuable but perhaps not as much as you think. 

i understand that the value is reduced as opposed to trading him at last trade deadline or even this offseason, so i won't argue the debatable point on when he should be traded for maximum return, but i do know that we see inflated returns every single trade deadline both for players that will make a significant difference to a teams ability to win the WS and for players that only deepen a post season team. the point that can't be debated is the loss of significant return for ohtani vs. nothing. 

nothing is the franchise altering strategy that can't happen. 

i just wholeheartedly disagree that contention mitigates a catastrophic error in management. if the angels want to avoid the whole thing, then the new owners should come right to ohtani and his people and just say what's your number and give it to him. if they're contending, then i think they have a shot of signing him before he hits FA. if they're not, then they should make him the same offer, albeit with a much lower expectation that he would sign. i don't feel that ohtani is really the FA diva that we're used to every year, maybe i'm wrong and he fully wants to go to FA. in that case, what i said above stands in regards to management perspective.

 

[Jeff Fletcher]

3 minutes ago, ukyah said:

i understand that the value is reduced as opposed to trading him at last trade deadline or even this offseason, so i won't argue the debatable point on when he should be traded for maximum return, but i do know that we see inflated returns every single trade deadline both for players that will make a significant difference to a teams ability to win the WS and for players that only deepen a post season team. the point that can't be debated is the loss of significant return for ohtani vs. nothing. 

nothing is the franchise altering strategy that can't happen. 

i just wholeheartedly disagree that contention mitigates a catastrophic error in management. if the angels want to avoid the whole thing, then the new owners should come right to ohtani and his people and just say what's your number and give it to him. if they're contending, then i think they have a shot of signing him before he hits FA. if they're not, then they should make him the same offer, albeit with a much lower expectation that he would sign. i don't feel that ohtani is really the FA diva that we're used to every year, maybe i'm wrong and he fully wants to go to FA. in that case, what i said above stands in regards to management perspective.

 

Well if you’re going to trade Ohtani at the deadline regardless of the team’s record at that point, then you should just trade him now. 
 

I think the decision at the deadline will be entirely based on their playoff chances at that point. 

[Pancake Bear]

Trading Ohtani would be incredibly stupid. 

[beatlesrule]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That depends who you get back.

Jojo from Tuson Arizona?

[Warfarin]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

The Angels really don't need to get a shortstop in my opinion. Fletcher, when healthy, and his hips and legs are healthy now, is a good defensive shortstop. I don't mean good as in he's adequate, and you don't have to worry about him. I mean good as in, he's actually an above average defender there. And he's hit before. 

And Rengifo is not bad there either. He won't be anything flashy, but he also won't be visible awful. He's just passable on an everyday basis. 

Given how much shortstops are going for these days, I think I'd hold onto both. Play the hot hand. Or platoon them. 

Vs RHP: 1B Walsh 2B Urshela SS Rengifo 3B Rendon

Vs LHP: 1B Drury 2B Rengifo SS Fletcher 3B Rendon

Inevitably when Rendon is injured: 1B Walsh/Drury 2B Rengifo/Drury SS Fletcher/Rengifo 3B Urshela.

Yep, agreed.

If/when Rendon is hurt, I would think we'd see the following:   

vs RHP:  1B Walsh, 2B Drury, SS Rengifo, 3B Urshela.  If we have the lead late in games, Fletcher can sub in at SS.

vs LHP:  1B Drury, 2B Rengifo, SS Fletcher, 3B Urshela.

The key difference with how Minasian has constructed this team is that it doesn't fall apart now if Rendon is hurt.  Even if a second player is hurt, the depth is good enough to keep things afloat.  

So let's say that Rendon and Fletcher are out.  Then you roll with 1B Walsh, 2B Drury, SS Rengifo, 3B Urshela.  Soto (or Velazquez) can get promoted then and play at that point, but at least they become players that are promoted after injuries, as opposed to being counted on from the start.

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, Trendon said:

IMO, one of the most important aspects of this move is that Drury provides 1B depth behind Walsh.

I know they've said Urshela can be an option at 1B, but he doesn't have much experience there and he doesn't really profile as a 1B. I feel much more comfortable with Drury as a backup 1B option than Urshela.

What I like about the signing is that basically everyone seemingly has multiple backups now.  They have really done all that they could to help provide coverage all over the infield.  Our minor league depth is absolutely terrible in terms of corner infielders.  There is some promise in the middle infield, with maybe Soto being better than expected, Velazquez being serviceable, and Neto/Paris in AA, but none are established.  If Soto looks good in AAA this year, then it at least provides some promise, but we don't know that yet.

So I think this is the FO's way of trying to help provide as much depth as possible using the 26 man roster, knowing there is not too much help beyond that in the minors at this time.

The weakness is we don't have a great SS, but as @Second Base mentioned, Fletcher is actually solid there when healthy.  Sure, his offense leads a lot to be desired, but if he can be a good defender at SS, that should be enough as long as the rest of the lineup is fairly good.

[Warfarin]

6 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

I really hope they don't trade Rengifo now.  

 

5 hours ago, Trendon said:

I'd be OK with it, depending on the return.

I wouldn't just give him away because a couple infielders have been added.

I would trade Rengifo if it is in the context for a true SS.  I would not trade him simply because we have too many infielders.  

I don't think a trade is in the works.  As I think about our depth situation, and the sheer lack of 1B/3B depth (only prospects of note are Jackson and Dichiara, both of whom are in AA and haven't really hit there yet eitiher), this is Minasian's way of trying to provide as much infield coverage as possible using MLB players.

In previous years, when Rendon (and others) went down, we pivoted to Duffy, Rojas, Gosselin, MacKinnon, and all sorts of others.  This year, instead of relying on a bevy of fringe MLB players / minor leaguers, and hoping one of them emerges, we actually have legitimate MLB options to use.  

I think our infield is set now.  I expect to see Minasian acquire another SP and probably another RP, and likely call it an offseason.  I'd like another OF, but I feel less sure that will transpire.

[CanadianHalo]

Fangraphs projections has Drury’s projected WAR at 1.6

Urshela at 1.2, Renfroe at 2.0

For a grand total of 4.8 WAR

And in 2023 these guys are set to make a combined total of 29.75 million… 

Big yikes. 

[angelsnationtalk]

11 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They could probably trade Ward or Rengifo now. Either has decent value. 

The outfield situation would worry me if Ward was traded, but I'd be up for it. Ward has a bunch of value that could help net a good starter or SS. 
I still wish they could sign a guy like Eovaldi and then package Rengifo/Suarez up a SS, but that's just wishful thinking at this point. Not sure how much more the Angels want to spend.

Their payroll is in new waters for us so it's hard to gauge at this point.  

[angelsnationtalk]

13 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I had a feeling this was coming, even though I'm not crazy about Drury.  I'm still slightly confused as to what the overall strategy is at this point, as the Angels continue to deepen the roster, but they're now at the point of creating redundancies. With this signing, plus the Urshela deal, and the continued presence of Rengifo and Fletcher, there's not really enough ABs to go around for everyone.  I get that you want to prepare for the worst, but I'm still concerned that while the "floor has been raised," the ceiling really hasn't been.

My only thought is a decent sized trade is impending. Angels now have the depth to package deal someone like Rengifo for either a SS or pitcher. 

Even seeing them go after Contreras was.... interesting. 

If this is where the Angels stay then I'm not too bullish on our playoff chances. We might have a winning record, but still finish in 3rd place. 

[Warfarin]

One other thing to note - with both Urshela and Drury on the team, I wouldn't expect Walsh to get any more than a handful of at-bats against lefties this year.  His splits are rather poor against them, and now we have more than enough depth to have him perpetually sit against them.

[Jason]

14 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I had a feeling this was coming, even though I'm not crazy about Drury.  I'm still slightly confused as to what the overall strategy is at this point, as the Angels continue to deepen the roster, but they're now at the point of creating redundancies. With this signing, plus the Urshela deal, and the continued presence of Rengifo and Fletcher, there's not really enough ABs to go around for everyone.  I get that you want to prepare for the worst, but I'm still concerned that while the "floor has been raised," the ceiling really hasn't been.

This is true and it's possible the cost of those ceiling raising guys was just too much for them. Especially with those 10+ year commitments the other guys got. I'm confident the Halos are going to make extending Ohtani a priority next year so that  is likely coming into play for the decisions they've made this offseason. 

[Angels 1961]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That depends what kind of SP you’re talking about. He definitely has some value though. 

Pablo Lopez

[Warfarin]

12 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Pablo Lopez

I imagine your dream MLB team has 13 Pablo Lopezes and 13 Vidal Brujans.

[Angelsfan1984]

It’s not only imperative but it is Vidal to have enough Brujans…