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Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread


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The problem with trading for Hoerner (or someone of comparable value) is the acquisition cost. Most likely it's a pitcher, and given that we finally got a pretty decent rotation, I don't really want to make it shallow again. 

But let's walk through a thought exercise. Let's say hypothetically we traded Suarez + prospects (hopefully not Neto) in a deal for Hoerner. Who do you put in the rotation? Do you sign someone? Senga or Rodon aren't gonna be cheap, which raises the question why you don't just sign Bogaerts?

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23 minutes ago, Pancake Bear said:

The problem with trading for Hoerner (or someone of comparable value) is the acquisition cost. Most likely it's a pitcher, and given that we finally got a pretty decent rotation, I don't really want to make it shallow again. 

But let's walk through a thought exercise. Let's say hypothetically we traded Suarez + prospects (hopefully not Neto) in a deal for Hoerner. Who do you put in the rotation? Do you sign someone? Senga or Rodon aren't gonna be cheap, which raises the question why you don't just sign Bogaerts?

I think you’d have to sign someone about as good as Suarez or better, a three or four year contract instead of eight or nine for Bogaerts.

From Fangraphs, Senga is #18. https://blogs.fangraphs.com/2023-top-50-free-agents/
 

Contract Estimate
Type Years AAV Total
Ben Clemens 4 $14.0 M $56.0 M
Median Crowdsource 4 $15.0 M $60.0 M
Avg Crowdsource 3.99 $14.9 M $59.4 M
2023 ZiPS Projections
IP BB K GS ERA+ ERA WAR
140.0 54 166 22 118 3.54 2.9
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8 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

The problem with trading for Hoerner (or someone of comparable value) is the acquisition cost. Most likely it's a pitcher, and given that we finally got a pretty decent rotation, I don't really want to make it shallow again. 

But let's walk through a thought exercise. Let's say hypothetically we traded Suarez + prospects (hopefully not Neto) in a deal for Hoerner. Who do you put in the rotation? Do you sign someone? Senga or Rodon aren't gonna be cheap, which raises the question why you don't just sign Bogaerts?

That's a great question and definitely part of the issue.  That said - if rumors are to be believed, and we are looking at the SP still as well as exploring the SS trade market, it would seem to imply that we very well might be using some SP capital for a SS trade.

So - as per @Revad's suggestion, Senga might fit the bill.  A lot of is unknown with him, and we can't really know what we are going to get, but - can he roughly approximate what Suarez provides?  I think so, based on some initial projections, but none of us know.

But let's flesh that out a bit and say we trade Suarez + prospects (not Neto) in exchange for Hoerner.  And we then sign Senga to replace the vacated hole in the the rotation.  Are we better off with Senga in the rotation in place of Suarez along with Hoerner at SS, or are we better with Suarez in the rotation and Fletcher at SS?

I would think we would be better with the former option.  And in terms of luxury tax, for whatever that's worth, we'd probably be roughly around the 228mil mark - just enough below.

Hoerner isn't necessarily an exciting option, but I think he'd be a pretty solid upgrade compared to what we currently have.

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If the Angels are serious about one of the 3 remaining shortstops and Perry has that kind of money to play with, I think I’d prefer we sign Contreras and Bassitt/Senga instead and trade for a shortstop (Hoerner)

These guys are more likely to get 3-5 year deals which I’m all for versus the 10 year deals. Continue to add productive players to the roster and not put all our eggs in one basket 

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20 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Another way to get a SS would be to sign an outfielder (Nimmo, Benitendi) and sell high on Ward to get a SS. 

If people on a message board think the Angels would be selling high on Ward, wouldn't other teams' front offices feel that way, too, and not be willing to give up too much for him?

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Just now, jsnpritchett said:

If people on a message board think the Angels would be selling high on Ward, wouldn't other teams' front offices feel that way, too, and not be willing to give up too much for him?

Selling high on him doesn't mean top tier player high. I think his value is as high as it's ever going to be. 

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4 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

If people on a message board think the Angels would be selling high on Ward, wouldn't other teams' front offices feel that way, too, and not be willing to give up too much for him?

Depends on whether they have a need in the outfield and have a SS to trade. I used selling high as the point of he is coming off a good year and has years of control. Not selling high like he’s about to fall off a cliff. I perceive Herget as that type of sell high. 

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1 hour ago, Jason said:

Selling high on him doesn't mean top tier player high. I think his value is as high as it's ever going to be. 

I disagree and think we need to see him healthy and starting over a full season. 

I doubt what we saw the first two months of the season from Ward is who he is, but I also doubt that the player who played through two significant injuries (shoulder/hamstring) that sapped his power and ability to drive the ball is who Ward is either. 

That being said, if he's anywhere close to the player that somewhere in the middle he's extremely valuable to the Angels and other teams seeking cheap productive players. Especially outfielders who are expensive on the FA market.

I think the Angels should hang on to him. 

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6 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree and think we need to see him healthy and starting over a full season. 

I doubt what we saw the first two months of the season from Ward is who he is, but I also doubt that the player who played through two significant injuries (shoulder/hamstring) that sapped his power and ability to drive the ball is who Ward is either. 

That being said, if he's anywhere close to the player that somewhere in the middle he's extremely valuable to the Angels and other teams seeking cheap productive players. Especially outfielders who are expensive on the FA market.

I think the Angels should hang on to him. 

I hope nothing more is traded or added to the outfield. 

With that being said, go sign Correa and Senga and then make that final piece trade at the deadline. 
NOT MY MONEY 🤪

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7 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree and think we need to see him healthy and starting over a full season. 

I doubt what we saw the first two months of the season from Ward is who he is, but I also doubt that the player who played through two significant injuries (shoulder/hamstring) that sapped his power and ability to drive the ball is who Ward is either. 

That being said, if he's anywhere close to the player that somewhere in the middle he's extremely valuable to the Angels and other teams seeking cheap productive players. Especially outfielders who are expensive on the FA market.

I think the Angels should hang on to him. 

Your assessment might be right.  But I am wide open to hear any trade discussions involving his name.

The goal is get better.  I wouldn’t “make him unavailable” in that effort.  If somebody wants him and pays the right price, I move him in a heartbeat.

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2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

 

So - as per @Revad's suggestion, Senga might fit the bill.  A lot of is unknown with him, and we can't really know what we are going to get, but - can he roughly approximate what Suarez provides?  I think so, based on some initial projections, but none of us know.

 

When does Senga have to decide?

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24 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I disagree and think we need to see him healthy and starting over a full season. 

I doubt what we saw the first two months of the season from Ward is who he is, but I also doubt that the player who played through two significant injuries (shoulder/hamstring) that sapped his power and ability to drive the ball is who Ward is either. 

That being said, if he's anywhere close to the player that somewhere in the middle he's extremely valuable to the Angels and other teams seeking cheap productive players. Especially outfielders who are expensive on the FA market.

I think the Angels should hang on to him. 

The point is you trade a position that is easy to fill (outfield) for a position that is difficult to fill (SS). You can spend $10-20 million on a very good outfielder.  That same amount gets you a meh SS these days.  

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