Could Minasian be Smarter than We Think

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, angelsnationtalk said:

Great points. 

I'd like to see more being moved at the deadline, though. 

My only concern is that the Angels will play very well until the deadline against these shitty teams (which they have beat this season), then have the mentality of not being sellers and push for it but fall way short again....

They need to trade (R) Iglesias, Cobb, one of Heaney/Canning, and maybe even Jose Iglesias.
Just ride with the rotation of Ohtani, Heaney/Canning, Suarez, Sandoval, Detmers, Rodriguez for the rest of the year and let those boys grow. 

I agree

[Angels 1961]

28 minutes ago, wopphil said:

They really should be trying to extend Cobb. He isn’t that old, has been superb this year, and could potentially be brought back on a very reasonable deal (given his last performance and injury issues). 

I remember Gubi saying that and it was on a Tuesday. I was eating tacos.

[failos]

He was smart enough to get a job as a GM for a MLB team—I’d say he’s smarter than anyone here. His competence and effectiveness has yet to be proven, though. I’m honestly starting to miss Eppler even though he signed so many shitty players.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, wopphil said:

Good post. But I think you underestimate the work he has to do. He will need to acquire at least two, but perhaps three starters (one of whom needs to be a top of the rotation arm). He will also need to acquire an entire bullpen. 50 million will get spent real fast.

Rotation candidates include Ohtani, Detmers, Rodriguez, Sandoval, Canning, Barria, Suarez. That's seven starters, six of which have experienced measured major league success. Not a bad position to be in. They'll be in the market for one starter, but that starter will be a top end option. 

I do agree that 50 million will go fast though. But I do think they'll be to acquire three back end relievers that cost around 7 million each, while also getting a front end starter and getting a passable SS option.

[Angels 1961]

31 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Rotation candidates include Ohtani, Detmers, Rodriguez, Sandoval, Canning, Barria, Suarez. That's seven starters, six of which have experienced measured major league success. Not a bad position to be in. They'll be in the market for one starter, but that starter will be a top end option. 

I do agree that 50 million will go fast though. But I do think they'll be to acquire three back end relievers that cost around 7 million each, while also getting a front end starter and getting a passable SS option.

Trades maybe some in house bullpen pieces. Bring back Jose Iglesias at SS, 2 years 12 mill.

[Angels 1961]

Am I smarter than most of you think?

[OhtaniSan]

21 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Am I smarter than most of you think?

No

[Revad]

3 hours ago, Second Base said:

Minasian is smart. 

He acquired Raisel Iglesias for basically 6 million dollars and is going to flip him with 2 million remaining and get a nice prospect in return. Great move. 

He acquired Cobb, who has been a revelation. He shouldn't have parted with Jahmai Jones, but he is probably going to get equal value in return when he flips him at the deadline. 

He acquired Jose Iglesias for next to nothing and Iglesias is a decent starting SS in the major leagues. 

He was quick to pull trigger in putting Patrick Sandoval and Jose Suarez in the rotation when other staters underperformed. 

He signed Fletcher to a 25 million dollar extension that looks like an absolute steal right now. 

He at least recognized that the bullpen was a big frickin problem, and tried to address it by bringing in Cishek, Watson and Slegers, which didn't work but it makes it doesn't that he isn't naive to the issue. 

He cut ties with Pujols, who was not helping the team. 

He saw the lack of organizational depth in terms of pitching in A ball and High A, and drafted 19 collegiate starters to fix the issue. 

He drafted Sam Bachman instead of Kumar Rocker, effectively saving 3 million in a signing bonus for someone with just as much upside and less downside. This is despite experts thinking they should've gone with Rocker. 

He sent Rodriguez back down to AA to join Detmers in what figures to be a great SP tandem that will be major league ready sooner rather than later.

Really, my only issue with Minasian so far is that Jose Quintana was a crap signing from the start and his bullpen choices are equally garbage. But because Eppler was a better GM than most here even considered, now Minasian is going to have something insane like 50 million dollars to spend this winter, and all he needs is a shortstop, an upside SP and a new bullpen. 

He could re-up Iglesias, get an incredible SP for 25 million and still have 20 million left over to spend on relievers. 

So yeah, I do believe he's smart. 

Well maybe, but he doesn’t he any credit until he makes playoffs.

[Angelsjunky]

I don't have an opinion on how smart he is - it is just too soon to tell. This trade deadline should tell us a lot, both by what he does and doesn't do. And then the offseason, of course. Meaning, I'll think we'll know a bit more in a week and a half, but know a lot more by March of 2022.

[Stradling]

33 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Am I smarter than most of you think?

Zero chance. 

[Junkballer]

31 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Am I smarter than most of you think?

[Revad]

1 hour ago, Angels 1961 said:

I remember Gubi saying that and it was on a Tuesday. I was eating tacos.

Was there guacamole, because that’s important to me it’s good for your, ah that think in your head.

[ten ocho recon scout]

43 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I don't have an opinion on how smart he is - it is just too soon to tell. This trade deadline should tell us a lot, both by what he does and doesn't do. And then the offseason, of course. Meaning, I'll think we'll know a bit more in a week and a half, but know a lot more by March of 2022.

Agree. Its his first year on. Gonna take awhile to see what he does. 

Epplers final grade still isnt known....

[VariousCrap]

4 hours ago, Second Base said:

Minasian is smart. 

He acquired Raisel Iglesias for basically 6 million dollars and is going to flip him with 2 million remaining and get a nice prospect in return. Great move. 

He acquired Cobb, who has been a revelation. He shouldn't have parted with Jahmai Jones, but he is probably going to get equal value in return when he flips him at the deadline. 

He acquired Jose Iglesias for next to nothing and Iglesias is a decent starting SS in the major leagues. 

He was quick to pull trigger in putting Patrick Sandoval and Jose Suarez in the rotation when other staters underperformed. 

He signed Fletcher to a 25 million dollar extension that looks like an absolute steal right now. 

He at least recognized that the bullpen was a big frickin problem, and tried to address it by bringing in Cishek, Watson and Slegers, which didn't work but it makes it doesn't that he isn't naive to the issue. 

He cut ties with Pujols, who was not helping the team. 

He saw the lack of organizational depth in terms of pitching in A ball and High A, and drafted 19 collegiate starters to fix the issue. 

He drafted Sam Bachman instead of Kumar Rocker, effectively saving 3 million in a signing bonus for someone with just as much upside and less downside. This is despite experts thinking they should've gone with Rocker. 

He sent Rodriguez back down to AA to join Detmers in what figures to be a great SP tandem that will be major league ready sooner rather than later.

Really, my only issue with Minasian so far is that Jose Quintana was a crap signing from the start and his bullpen choices are equally garbage. But because Eppler was a better GM than most here even considered, now Minasian is going to have something insane like 50 million dollars to spend this winter, and all he needs is a shortstop, an upside SP and a new bullpen. 

He could re-up Iglesias, get an incredible SP for 25 million and still have 20 million left over to spend on relievers. 

So yeah, I do believe he's smart. 

 

 

My initial instinct was to say he isn't very smart, but looking at your list, overall, he has made some good decisions.

It is very possible he would have done a better job with the bullpen if Arte would have let him spend money on it.

[ThisismineScios]

10 hours ago, Second Base said:

Rotation candidates include Ohtani, Detmers, Rodriguez, Sandoval, Canning, Barria, Suarez. That's seven starters, six of which have experienced measured major league success. Not a bad position to be in. They'll be in the market for one starter, but that starter will be a top end option. 

I do agree that 50 million will go fast though. But I do think they'll be to acquire three back end relievers that cost around 7 million each, while also getting a front end starter and getting a passable SS option.

Funny how much the SS market has changed. Who is a great option besides maybe Correa? 

I would be fine with them giving Iglesias (J) a 2-year extension. He’s been great. Slots into the 9-hole well. Save the money for pitching. But the way Detmers looks, he can be a frontline guy. They should definitely re-sign Cobb and Iglesias (R) as well. Then go get a Stroman, Thor, Scherzer, or somebody to actually have a quality rotation. Ohtani, Detmers, Sandoval, Cobb, Suarez and FA is nothing to laugh about. 

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, ThisismineScios said:

Funny how much the SS market has changed. Who is a great option besides maybe Correa? 

I would be fine with them giving Iglesias (J) a 2-year extension. He’s been great. Slots into the 9-hole well. Save the money for pitching. But the way Detmers looks, he can be a frontline guy. They should definitely re-sign Cobb and Iglesias (R) as well. Then go get a Stroman, Thor, Scherzer, or somebody to actually have a quality rotation. Ohtani, Detmers, Sandoval, Cobb, Suarez and FA is nothing to laugh about. 

Absolutely what I would do too. I anticipate 2022 to be the first truly dangerous Angels team since 2014, before Richards went down. And before that, 2009. 

If Perry does his job right, they'll have one of the best offenses in baseball, one of the better rotations, and hopefully a deep bullpen with multiple options that can be deployed at any time, taking the guesswork away from Joe Maddon. 

[Inside Pitch]

13 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Am I smarter than most of you think?

You have your moments

[wopphil]

7 hours ago, ThisismineScios said:

Funny how much the SS market has changed. Who is a great option besides maybe Correa? 

I would be fine with them giving Iglesias (J) a 2-year extension. He’s been great. Slots into the 9-hole well. Save the money for pitching. But the way Detmers looks, he can be a frontline guy. They should definitely re-sign Cobb and Iglesias (R) as well. Then go get a Stroman, Thor, Scherzer, or somebody to actually have a quality rotation. Ohtani, Detmers, Sandoval, Cobb, Suarez and FA is nothing to laugh about. 

My thoughts exactly. They need to bring back Cobb and need a top of the rotation arm (along with re-signing Iglesias and Iglesias). Realistically, would cost $65 mil a year (Scherzer - 2/64; Cobb - 2/26; R.Iglesias - 3/33; J. Iglesias - 3/27).  That leaves no money to sign any pen help. 

[ThisismineScios]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

Absolutely what I would do too. I anticipate 2022 to be the first truly dangerous Angels team since 2014, before Richards went down. And before that, 2009. 

If Perry does his job right, they'll have one of the best offenses in baseball, one of the better rotations, and hopefully a deep bullpen with multiple options that can be deployed at any time, taking the guesswork away from Joe Maddon. 

I think we all knew and said this going into this year. 2022 is the real opportunity. When you add in Trout’s absence and Rendon’s no-show it really shouldn’t be surprising to be where we are. I mean last night we started 3 minor league contract guys, a DFA’d OF, a rookie in his 4th game, and Kurt Suzuki. If you would’ve told me that was our lineup back in April, I would assume it was because we were 20 games under 500. Not 2 and hanging by a thread of contention. 

What do you want them to do at the deadline?

[ThisismineScios]

27 minutes ago, wopphil said:

My thoughts exactly. They need to bring back Cobb and need a top of the rotation arm (along with re-signing Iglesias and Iglesias). Realistically, would cost $65 mil a year (Scherzer - 2/64; Cobb - 2/26; R.Iglesias - 3/33; J. Iglesias - 3/27).  That leaves no money to sign any pen help. 

Shouldn’t spend big on the pen. It has a bad ROI for big spending. A successful pen will come from home grown guys, targeted cast offs, and a few buy low Guys. 

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

I think we all knew and said this going into this year. 2022 is the real opportunity. When you add in Trout’s absence and Rendon’s no-show it really shouldn’t be surprising to be where we are. I mean last night we started 3 minor league contract guys, a DFA’d OF, a rookie in his 4th game, and Kurt Suzuki. If you would’ve told me that was our lineup back in April, I would assume it was because we were 20 games under 500. Not 2 and hanging by a thread of contention. 

What do you want them to do at the deadline?

My updated predictions on what they'll do. It's pretty similar to what I would do too, outside of extending Cobb and Jose Iglesias.

1. Angels trade Raisel Iglesias and Alex Cobb to Toronto Blue Jays in return for catcher Gabriel Moreno, and pitchers Eric Pardinho and Joey Murray. 

2. Angels trade Andrew Heaney and Jose Iglesias to the New York Mets in return for RHP Robert Dominguez and OF Alex Ramirez (which is going to confuse the F out of Angel fans because we already have an OF prospect named Alex Ramirez).

3. Angels trade Jo Adell and Jeremiah Jackson to the Cincinnati Reds in return for RHP Luis Castillo. 

4. Angels trade Kurt Suzuki to the San Francisco Giants for RHP Kervin Castro. 

[Jeff Fletcher]

1 hour ago, ThisismineScios said:

Shouldn’t spend big on the pen. It has a bad ROI for big spending. A successful pen will come from home grown guys, targeted cast offs, and a few buy low Guys. 

^^^^
^^^^
^^^^
 

Did you guys see Alex Colome pitching the 6th inning of a game the Twins were losing last night?

i suggest one of you do a search of the 10 relievers who got the biggest deals and see how many of them are good. 
 

I wrote this story a few years ago.

[Angels Fan Forever]

I just posted this on another thread but it works here better:

Why don't we go the Chuck Finley developmental path with certain players any longer?  Is it injury concerns? Do other organizations do this?

Finley was drafted at 22. Was a reliever with the Angels at 23/24. And became a full time starter at 25. I know this path would not work for many prospects but if we could fill a spot or two in the bull pen each year with a young guy who has had success as a starter in AA/AAA I think it would help.

Why not have guys like Bachman spend a year as a reliever with the Angels rather than in AA/AAA. I know it has been mentioned but it could be a developmental path for pitchers every year. They were doing this with Rodriguez but Minasian sent him back down to get stretched out. Why not let him stay in the bull pen this year and revisit it next year?

 

[Dtwncbad]

19 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Am I smarter than most of you think?

A little.  Remember when you first learned that Chaka could speak?  Kinda like that.

[ThisismineScios]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

^^^^
^^^^
^^^^
 

Did you guys see Alex Colome pitching the 6th inning of a game the Twins were losing last night?

i suggest one of you do a search of the 10 relievers who got the biggest deals and see how many of them are good. 
 

I wrote this story a few years ago.

Thanks Jeff. 

Bullpens are a crapshoot and impossible to predict. I do think there is one pretty consistent pattern however. If your team has a good track record of developing pitchers, you have a much higher likelihood of having a good one. Rays, Indians, Dodgers, and (yes) the Mariners have done a good job at it. The Angels have not, to say the least. 

Also—going into this year most of us loved what Perry did. He got Iglesias, Slegers, Watson and Cishek. These were moves everyone loved. Mayers was our one good reliever. CRod was a revelation early on. Even Guerra was good last year! 

I believe the way they’ve been deployed by Joe has played a big part in their struggles. And I personally believe Matt Wise is nowhere near ready to be a major league pitching coach.