The Official 2021 Los Angeles Angels Minor League Stats, Reports & Scouting Thread

[Docwaukee]

13 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I see walks (and contact) as symptomatic of pitch recognition and overall plate approach. If you can recognize pitches, you lay off the bad ones and you have a better chance of making contact; the walks start accumulating and the BA goes up. Meaning, they aren't the same thing, but as his pitch recognition improves, his walks will naturally go up, and we can't see pitch recognition in the stats, but we can see walks and contact rate.

Right now I see a guy with great power, but poor contact and plate discipline. To be a good player, he needs to at least be average in one of the other two. To be a star, he needs to be average or better in both. Meaning, if Adell can hit .250 and walk 50 times a year, he'll be very good, maybe .250/.330/.550 with 35+ HR. Right now, though, I see a guy who would struggle to hit .220 in the majors, or walk more than 25-30 times a year. That would be something like .220/.270/.450 with 25 HR, imo.

Either way, I think he'll be a major leaguer, but the range of outcomes is still rather wide, whereas someone like Brandon Marsh has a floor of being an average plus regular, and a very good chance of being at least a good to very good player. 

 

 

I normally agree but Adell is a different type of player.  I haven't seen many hit the ball as hard as he does on a consistent basis and on so many different type of pitches yet with only average contact ability.  In one at bat he'll take a pitch low and in or high and away and just demolish it for a mammoth hr.  In other at bats he'll swing through three pitches down the middle.  I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.  I still see most of his swing and miss happen in the zone because he thinks every strike is a potential hr.  I can't figure it out but it's not conventional.  Not what you see from other prospects.  He's a bit of a freak that way and only with certain types of failure will he progress.  I just can't tell if that's happening right now because he's 22 and leads the league in hrs.  And is right up there with xbh.  And k's.   

Maybe at some point you've gotta let the major leagues force him to learn and just let him cut his teeth or 'let it eat' as the kids say.  

[Taylor]

15 hours ago, rafibomb said:

Jo Adell had a 3-walk game today! (he also had 2 strikeouts)

Call him up!

[Taylor]

7 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I normally agree but Adell is a different type of player.  I haven't seen many hit the ball as hard as he does on a consistent basis and on so many different type of pitches yet with only average contact ability.  In one at bat he'll take a pitch low and in or high and away and just demolish it for a mammoth hr.  In other at bats he'll swing through three pitches down the middle.  I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.  I still see most of his swing and miss happen in the zone because he thinks every strike is a potential hr.  I can't figure it out but it's not conventional.  Not what you see from other prospects.  He's a bit of a freak that way and only with certain types of failure will he progress.  I just can't tell if that's happening right now because he's 22 and leads the league in hrs.  And is right up there with xbh.  And k's.   

Maybe at some point you've gotta let the major leagues force him to learn and just let him cut his teeth or 'let it eat' as the kids say.  

Reminds me of Vladdy Sr., although he did walk 54 times in his only real full minor league season (at age 21).

[Second Base]

42 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Reminds me of Vladdy Sr., although he did walk 54 times in his only real full minor league season (at age 21).

Senior could hit balls anywhere though. He was a contact hitter to go along with everything else he was. Adell, is not a contact hitter and isn't anywhere near the defender Vlad was. 

Finding an applicable comp for Adell is extremely difficult at this point. You'd need a supremely athletic outfielder with more power than anyone, but also a bad defender with a low BA and OBP. 

Maybe Marcell Ozuna with less defense. Maybe Carl Crawford with more power and less speed. Maybe J-Up with more power, and slightly less bat and defense. Maybe Mike Cameron with much less defense. 

It paints the picture of someone who is very obviously a starting outfielder, but likely not the all-star building block we once thought. And not MLB ready by 21/22, but more or less ready to contribute at the top level closer to age 24. 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Second Base

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I normally agree but Adell is a different type of player.  I haven't seen many hit the ball as hard as he does on a consistent basis and on so many different type of pitches yet with only average contact ability.  In one at bat he'll take a pitch low and in or high and away and just demolish it for a mammoth hr.  In other at bats he'll swing through three pitches down the middle.  I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.  I still see most of his swing and miss happen in the zone because he thinks every strike is a potential hr.  I can't figure it out but it's not conventional.  Not what you see from other prospects.  He's a bit of a freak that way and only with certain types of failure will he progress.  I just can't tell if that's happening right now because he's 22 and leads the league in hrs.  And is right up there with xbh.  And k's.   

Maybe at some point you've gotta let the major leagues force him to learn and just let him cut his teeth or 'let it eat' as the kids say.  

Adell's plate discipline issues are 100% confidence based.  He thinks he can turn on everything which is bad considering his bat to ball skills aren't great.  But you're right, he doesn't really lack pitch recognition skills, unfortunately he's not anywhere near Brandon Marsh in that regard.  He just needs to learn what he can't turn on.  Dude would be a much better hitter if he just TRIED to walk but it's not in his game in much the way it wasn't part of Aybar's game.

 

[Angels Fan Forever]

Any word on Matt Thaiss? He left the game on Saturday after 2 AB's and did not play yesterday.

Call up? Injury? Normal rest day on Sunday after a blow out on Saturday?

[Second Base]

3 minutes ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

Any word on Matt Thaiss? He left the game on Saturday after 2 AB's and did not play yesterday.

Call up? Injury? Normal rest day on Sunday after a blow out on Saturday?

No word, but the more I watch him, the more I believe he's in the Angels future plans if he isn't dealt. I know the team really likes Bemboom too in that backup role. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

Maybe Marcell Ozuna with less defense. 

obligatory:

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Second Base said:

Senior could hit balls anywhere though. He was a contact hitter to go along with everything else he was. Adell, is not a contact hitter and isn't anywhere near the defender Vlad was. 

Finding an applicable comp for Adell is extremely difficult at this point. You'd need a supremely athletic outfielder with more power than anyone, but also a bad defender with a low BA and OBP. 

Maybe Marcell Ozuna with less defense. Maybe Carl Crawford with more power and less speed. Maybe J-Up with more power, and slightly less bat and defense. Maybe Mike Cameron with much less defense. 

It paints the picture of someone who is very obviously a starting outfielder, but likely not the all-star building block we once thought. And not MLB ready by 21/22, but more or less ready to contribute at the top level closer to age 24. 

Sr. in addition to never K’ing 100 times in a season also generally walked 50-60 times per season.

Sr. was in simple terms a freak of nature at the plate.

[Second Base]

23 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

obligatory:

 

 

That play was hilarious! Oddly enough, Ozuna win a gold glove.

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angels Fan Forever said:

Any word on Matt Thaiss? He left the game on Saturday after 2 AB's and did not play yesterday.

Call up? Injury? Normal rest day on Sunday after a blow out on Saturday?

He hit a ball off his hands.

[jsnpritchett]

13 minutes ago, Second Base said:

That play was hilarious! Oddly enough, Ozuna win a gold glove.

And, shockingly, it was in his best OFFENSIVE year...Voters still don't always just pay attention to defense when it comes to GGs.

That said, Ozuna was actually pretty good with the glove earlier in his career, and was basically just slightly below average in 2017 when he won the GG.

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

And, shockingly, it was in his best OFFENSIVE year...Voters still don't always just pay attention to defense when it comes to GGs.

That said, Ozuna was actually pretty good with the glove earlier in his career, and was basically just slightly below average in 2017 when he won the GG.

And that's essentially the hope with Adell. That eventually, all that athleticism kicks in and he actually develops into a pretty good defender.

And Adell's development has even helped alter my preconceived notions of what a good defender actually is. I figured anyone with his skill set (speed, jumping ability, arm, playing baseball his whole life) is automatically going to be a good defender. And Adell, well I've never seen a prospect or player with absolutely no instincts in the outfield, until him.

I mean you can take random infielders, like Mark Trumbo and even they can play a passable corner outfield with no athleticism or prior experience. And yet Jo Adell, with an abundance of both, can't. 

It's incredible, but reveals the truth that playing good defense incorporates more than just tools. 

[Angelsjunky]

16 hours ago, Dochalo said:

I normally agree but Adell is a different type of player.  I haven't seen many hit the ball as hard as he does on a consistent basis and on so many different type of pitches yet with only average contact ability.  In one at bat he'll take a pitch low and in or high and away and just demolish it for a mammoth hr.  In other at bats he'll swing through three pitches down the middle.  I have a hard time wrapping my head around it.  I still see most of his swing and miss happen in the zone because he thinks every strike is a potential hr.  I can't figure it out but it's not conventional.  Not what you see from other prospects.  He's a bit of a freak that way and only with certain types of failure will he progress.  I just can't tell if that's happening right now because he's 22 and leads the league in hrs.  And is right up there with xbh.  And k's.   

Maybe at some point you've gotta let the major leagues force him to learn and just let him cut his teeth or 'let it eat' as the kids say.  

I tend to agree with you about the last part, although if Marsh does well enough, I'm not sure where they'll play him. Marsh essentially has the chance to nail down a starting gig right now. I suppose that the Angels might go with a rotation next year, especially given the injury-prone natures of both Trout and Upton. Meaning, next year we could see something like: Trout 130, Upton 120, Marsh 120, Adell 110. Then adjusting if someone is hurt longer.

Anyhow, I think what you illustrate in the first paragraph is just how important pitch recognizing is for Adell. It might be that what you describe is directly attributable to him having no clue what is coming, and those HR come when he guesses correctly. Meaning, if he ever learns some degree of pitch recognition, he could be a beast.

I'd be curious to see what his barrel rate is.

[ScottM]

18 year-old Panama signing Alejandro Hidalgo is already stateside and making strides. He went 5 innings on 43 pitches today, 1 earned, 6 K's.

Fangraphs in June: "He sat 93-94, flashed several plus curveballs, and worked to his arm side with an upper-80s changeup... Hidalgo is on par with the sort of high school arms who get $1 million bonuses in the draft, with a bevy of solid components but without the sort of premium athleticism or projection that portend potential impact growth."

[HeavenlyHalos]

Question for all of you, do we have any decent, not even good, just decent near-ready bullpen arms in the farm?

[rafibomb]

14 minutes ago, ScottSted said:

18 year-old Panama signing Alejandro Hidalgo is already stateside and making strides. He went 5 innings on 43 pitches today, 1 earned, 6 K's.

Fangraphs in June: "He sat 93-94, flashed several plus curveballs, and worked to his arm side with an upper-80s changeup... Hidalgo is on par with the sort of high school arms who get $1 million bonuses in the draft, with a bevy of solid components but without the sort of premium athleticism or projection that portend potential impact growth."

There is ALOT of talent on that Arizona League team. Exciting stuff!

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

Question for all of you, do we have any decent, not even good, just decent near-ready bullpen arms in the farm?

We have some guy named Jaime Barria. Sounds familiar.

Brian Johnson is a veteran and pitching well in AAA. Maybe Felix Pena deserves a shot.

I think more realistically we're going to see Perry throw in the towel and make some trades, then we'll see Detmers, C-Rod, Barria, Canning (when he's off the IL), Criswell, Danish, Higgins, Ortega, Tyler, Hernandez.

[HeavenlyHalos]

8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We have some guy named Jaime Barria. Sounds familiar.

Brian Johnson is a veteran and pitching well in AAA. Maybe Felix Pena deserves a shot.

I think more realistically we're going to see Perry throw in the towel and make some trades, then we'll see Detmers, C-Rod, Barria, Canning (when he's off the IL), Criswell, Danish, Higgins, Ortega, Tyler, Hernandez.

Should have clarified that I meant more for next season. The best names there are starters for next season…hopefully

[rafibomb]

8 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

We have some guy named Jaime Barria. Sounds familiar.

Brian Johnson is a veteran and pitching well in AAA. Maybe Felix Pena deserves a shot.

I think more realistically we're going to see Perry throw in the towel and make some trades, then we'll see Detmers, C-Rod, Barria, Canning (when he's off the IL), Criswell, Danish, Higgins, Ortega, Tyler, Hernandez.

Am I crazy to think that the team is going to be better if this is "throwing in the towel"? That's why I think we have a golden opportunity to sell but also improve the team presently and in the future simultaneously.

[rafibomb]

3 minutes ago, HeavenlyHalos said:

Should have clarified that I meant more for next season. The best names there are starters for next season…hopefully

Connor Higgins and Oliver Ortega will probably be ready next season. People also forget that if he weren't injured in the spring, Gerardo Reyes would probably be in the pen right now as well.

[Angelsjunky]

15 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Am I crazy to think that the team is going to be better if this is "throwing in the towel"? That's why I think we have a golden opportunity to sell but also improve the team presently and in the future simultaneously.

I've been thinking the same thing, especially when the big guys come back. 

It would, at least, be more fun to watch.

[HeavenlyHalos]

28 minutes ago, rafibomb said:

Connor Higgins and Oliver Ortega will probably be ready next season. People also forget that if he weren't injured in the spring, Gerardo Reyes would probably be in the pen right now as well.

Good call. I forgot about Reyes. 

[stormngt]

3 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I tend to agree with you about the last part, although if Marsh does well enough, I'm not sure where they'll play him. Marsh essentially has the chance to nail down a starting gig right now. I suppose that the Angels might go with a rotation next year, especially given the injury-prone natures of both Trout and Upton. Meaning, next year we could see something like: Trout 130, Upton 120, Marsh 120, Adell 110. Then adjusting if someone is hurt longer.

Anyhow, I think what you illustrate in the first paragraph is just how important pitch recognizing is for Adell. It might be that what you describe is directly attributable to him having no clue what is coming, and those HR come when he guesses correctly. Meaning, if he ever learns some degree of pitch recognition, he could be a beast.

I'd be curious to see what his barrel rate is.

Knowing Maddon he may play Upton at 2nd. Marsh at SS and Adell at 3b.

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Knowing Maddon he may play Upton at 2nd. Marsh at SS and Adell at 3b.

You forgot Trout at catcher.