LA Times: Joe Maddon offers frank assessment of #Angels: “We need to do some work”

[Chuck]

 

[Claude]

100% correct. This team needs a lot of work. They have some expensive dead wood that they need to purge before they can even think about winning. It’s outrageous that one of the most expensive teams in baseball can’t get a top 8 spot in the AL. It’s going to get even more difficult next year. 

[CanadianHalo]

Duh

[tdawg87]

[Angel Oracle]

Pitching is the big question mark.

[Jason]

15 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

F off! I was just about to post this 

[kevinb]

The collective "we" is correct. The owner, GM, Manager and players. This is not a good team from the top down. 

[tdawg87]

15 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Pitching is the big question mark.

 

17 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

F off! I was just about to post this 

You got Lou'd

[totdprods]

There's a lot that needs to happen, but we do have a lot of great pieces to work with. 

One of the biggest things now - and maybe Eppler's last hope for a job next year, here or otherwise, is what he's hedged his bets on. The farm. The Angels need a couple bats and a couple arms to really show something before this year is up, otherwise Billy is a goner - he's held onto these prospects, developed them, and not put them in the majors. If they can't do that right now, we'll have a new GM without a doubt, and the Angels will be in real trouble as a result. 

I see the roster like this going into '21...

• Rotation:
  • 1: ??? - there isn't really any true #1 available as of now by FA or trade. Bauer comes closest, and isn't a given to produce or to be acquired. 
  • 2 and 3: Bundy/Heaney shore this up nicely. If one can start to ascend to a #1, we can get by with increased production from...
  • 4 and 5: Quite simply, one of Barria, Suarez, Sandoval, or Detmers even have to step up here this fall and claim this, and Canning needs to not fall apart.
  • Wildcard: Ohtani. 
• Bullpen:
  • I always have a hard time worrying too much about the bullpen, because it's my opinion that if a team has a functioning rotation, defense, and offense, the bullpen's importance becomes marginalized - at least when we're at the stage we're at now. We have plenty of pieces that have promise. Some are quietly coming around and putting together a good year, only having their numbers skewed by small sample size. We need to keep adding guys like Mike Mayers, Gerardo Reyes, Noe Ramirez. This will come together if everything is clicking, of that I am confident. 
• Catcher:
  • Stassi looked good, but it's been brief. Bemboom is showing the defense to be the third-stringer for the foreseeable future since he has options as well I believe. His bat is a bit better this year too. Angels will likely sign a vet to a one-year deal again. I think this is fine. 
• First Base:
  • This is really becoming an issue, and not because of Pujols. Especially in his final year. Much like the back of the rotation, it's time for one of Thaiss, Walsh, or Ward to step up and hit. At least give us a .750-.800 OPS to replace La Stella/Goodwin. If one finishes the year like this, we're good - for now. 
• Second Base/Shortstop:
  • Again - it's time. Rengifo or Barreto have to step up here and claim this. Rengifo had a promising year last year. His overall line this year is awful, but he's showing dramatically improved BB% rate and taking more pitches. Barreto might just need playing time. The biggest downside to not trading Simmons this deadline is that it will take away time from one of these two getting more reps in - and we need that to evaluate what we have. More than likely, one of these two are simply playing for the 2021 UT role. I never thought Fletcher had the range or arm to play shortstop, but he's done quite well this year filling in for Simba. I'd be comfortable giving him the role in 2021, as I think re-signing Simba is unlikely. We need the money. I'd rather re-sign La Stella for 1B/2B work. I guess Jam Jones is a long-shot here too.
• Third Base/Centerfield:
  • We're good.
• Left Field/Designated Hitter:
  • I'm not giving up on Upton quite yet. He's been notoriously streaky throughout his career. A creature of habit. His injuries and the virus might have simply amplified his weaknesses. I think he can be a .250/.800/25 HR guy still for another year or two, but am prepared to just assume that, like Pujols, he could be deadweight DH/PH/platoon material next year. No escaping it. 
• Right Field/Left Field:
  • Much like what we're seeing with the rest of the kids, it's time to step up. Adell needs to show he can put up at least Goodwin-level production offensively the rest of the year. If Marsh gets called up, same expectations. Jones again is a long-shot here, as could be Ward.

Our needs, first and foremost, are not a FA #1 SP, but rather:

• a young SP or two has to join Canning as showing signs of at least league-average MLB production
• at least one of Thaiss, Rengifo, Ward, Walsh, Barreto, or Jones hitting enough to replace Tommy La Stella's production at 1B/2B
• at least one of Adell, Ward, Marsh, or Jones hitting enough to replace Goodwin's production 

If that can't be done, none of this is going to work in 2021. 

Following that, our 2021 shopping list:

• A productive SP. I won't put a label on it. We need another Bundy/Heaney, or we need a Bauer. We need quality innings one way or another. A trade might be best.
• A vet catcher. Keep it simple, keep it safe, sign another Castro-type. He could be a fit, as could Molina, Romine, McCann, Suzuki, Cervelli, Chirinos.
• We'll need to acquire another mid-infielder, barring a miracle. Could be re-signing La Stella or Simmons. Could be a stopgap up the middle. Lots of FA options this year. Profar, Schoop, LeMahieu, La Stella, Simmons, Villar, Gregorius, Hernandez, Galvis...lots of steady options that should be doable on a one-year.
• We will probably still need to sign at least a 4th OF/platoon OF to go with Upton or give us some insurance for Adell/Marsh. I actually think Joe Pederson makes a lot of sense to target. Lefty bat, platoons with Upton or Adell, picks up 1B again. Markakis, Souza, Grossman, Reddick, Pillar could also fit.

[GrittyVeterans]

It’s too bad we’re too deep into the mess to just do a full rebuild. Watching the White Sox and Padres tear it up this year is frustrating

[AngelsLakersFan]

59 minutes ago, totdprods said:

it's time for one of Thaiss, Walsh, or Ward to step up and hit. At least give us a .750-.800 OPS to replace La Stella/Goodwin.

This isn't going to happen. They need to stop with the plans that require it.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

It’s too bad we’re too deep into the mess to just do a full rebuild. Watching the White Sox and Padres tear it up this year is frustrating

Yup... This team should be two years into it's window and here we are talking about the team needing to rebuild.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

It’s too bad we’re too deep into the mess to just do a full rebuild. Watching the White Sox and Padres tear it up this year is frustrating

Then I suggest not watching them  

[eligrba4ever]

No starting pitching talent. No catching talent. No prospect first basemen. Let's build from there.

Laughing not from joy, but from the agony of insanity.

[Amazing Larry]

30 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

It’s too bad we’re too deep into the mess to just do a full rebuild. Watching the White Sox and Padres tear it up this year is frustrating

I'm actually digging the Padres. 

[tdawg87]

Can Maddon offer a Sylvester assessment?

[eligrba4ever]

7 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Can Maddon offer a Sylvester assessment?

Thuffering thuccatash?

[VariousCrap]

38 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

This isn't going to happen. They need to stop with the plans that require it.

 

Agreed.  Those guys are below average ball players.  They don't have it.  Time to move on.

[Taylor]

"We need to do some work" will become the new "Turn the page."

[VariousCrap]

2 hours ago, Angel Oracle said:

Pitching is the big question mark.

 

The pitching isn't a question mark, it just sucks.  That much is obvious.

In 2021, the Angels have to improve their rotation and bullpen.  That is priority number one.  No more of wishful thinking about unproven guys who should be in AAA.  They need guys with proven track records who can get the job done.

1B, middle infield and the Upton/Pujols problems all follow that.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by VariousCrap

[Don]

It's kinda a weird comp, but in a lot of ways this team reminds me of the 2000s Royals. Just living in sub-medicority year after year, fans trying to convince themselves that Angel Berroa and Mark Teahan are future superstars while spending money on mediocre (read: non-superstar talent) rather than committing to a full rebuild. The biggest difference is of course that some of the Royals prospects did turn out to be pretty good and they just didn't have the money to compete, but still tried for some reason until about 2010.

[Dtwncbad]

I like the fun positional breakdowns.  But I laugh at “we at good in CF.”

The way things are going, when the Angels win the World Series, Trout won’t be in center anymore.

[eligrba]

Eppler‘s status is getting interesting.

[Stradling]

If they did a full rebuild Trout would be somewhere else.  And success with rebuilds aren’t guaranteed.  There is this false belief that you can trade Trout and improve.  That may or may not have happened.  For Starters you have to guess right, then you have to get lucky, then you have to have health and then all the other decisions have to work as well.  Obviously pitching has been a problem and isn’t going to be an easy fix.  You can do everything right and end up with a bad bullpen or an injured arm.  I would go hard after Bauer and I would trade for the best pitcher I can get with a deal centered around Adams and other pieces.  Those two along with Bundy should be a stable enough starting rotation.  The pen is harder, because they are so volatile.  Bottom line is the record is worse than the team.  It never got going and at this point I don’t think it is in the best interest for it to get going.