Buster Olney on Eppler, Arte, and the Red Sox

[eligrba]

1 minute ago, GrittyVeterans said:

He will either be offered an extension this offseason, or he's gone. You don't go in to a situation with a lame duck GM too often. 

Whether you like it or not, the idea of him not being here long term is not far-fetched. Is it the right decision to move on? I have no opinion on that because like I said, he's average. 

Some of you guys have this idea in your head that he's a Friedman/Epstein/Cashman/Beane level executive. I wish that were true, but so far reality does not come close to backing that up

There is no question that Friedman/Epstein/Cashman/Beane are all excellent GM's.  Have they always been?  Experience matters.  Eppler is still a novice.  I am guessing that Arte is working out an extension with Eppler.  If Arte wanted to move on, there would be no reason to allow Eppler to continue for one more year.  Why would Arte let a GM have one more year if he has some doubts about the GM?  It makes no sense to me.

[UndertheHalo]

7 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

He will either be offered an extension this offseason, or he's gone. You don't go in to a situation with a lame duck GM too often. 

Whether you like it or not, the idea of him not being here long term is not far-fetched. Olney is not saying anything ground breaking, he's just looking at the basic reality of his contract status and connecting some dots Is it the right decision to move on? I have no opinion on that because like I said, he's average. 

Some of you guys have this idea in your head that he's a Friedman/Epstein/Cashman/Beane level executive. I wish that were true, but so far reality does not come close to backing that up. He also isn't Reagins or Dipoto bad either. Average.

 

You’re misunderstanding me.  I do believe this offseason is a huge test for him.  And if things don’t break his way, it probably is the end of the line for him with the Angels.  That being said.   I think that there’s a huge difference between getting rid of him now and at the end of next season.  We’re at a pretty pivotal point for the Angels.  A lot of stuff is going clear up in the next 12 months. 

Hitting the eject button now, before this winter with a lot of Epplers stuff unfurling would be a big mistake. 

[eligrba]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I would be surprised to see him get extended anytime before midseason.  I fully believe it's a put up or shut up year for him.   I don't say that as a slam, I believe he's done an amazing job of rebuilding things but Arte may be looking for results, especially if he is indeed allowed to spend.

This does not make sense to me.  If this is the case, why would Eppler stay?  He has certainly done enough for other clubs to take notice.  Why would any person, who has other options stay in a "put up or shut up" situation?  Working for someone who has confidence in me seems more important.

[eligrba]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

You’re misunderstanding me.  I do believe this offseason is a huge test for him.  And if things don’t break his way, it probably is the end of the line for him with the Angels.  That being said.   I think that there’s a huge difference between getting rid of him now and at the end of next season.  We’re at a pretty pivotal point for the Angels.  A lot of stuff is going clear up in the next 12 months. 

Hitting the eject button now, before this winter with a lot of Epplers stuff unfurling would be a big mistake. 

If things don't break Eppler's way, what about adding a President to oversee baseball operations instead of replacing Eppler?

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

This does not make sense to me.  If this is the case, why would Eppler stay?  He has certainly done enough for other clubs to take notice.  Why would any person, who has other options stay in a "put up or shut up" situation?  Working for someone who has confidence in me seems more important.

Why does he stay?  Because its MLB and there are rules for people who are under contract -- the Angels would have to allow him to leave or ask for compensation. 

[eligrba]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

Why does he stay?  Because its MLB and there are rules for people who are under contract -- the Angels would have to allow him to leave or ask for compensation. 

So Eppler had to accept the Angel's picking up his option?  He was not able to refuse? I honestly do not know.

[Inside Pitch]

5 minutes ago, eligrba said:

So Eppler had to accept the Angel's picking up his option?  He was not able to refuse? I honestly do not know.

Having never seen his contract, I have no idea.   I'm sure there is language in there that covers that sort of situation.

I'm fairly sure the dude wants to see this baby through -- he's spent four years building up to this point and I can't imagine him willingly walking away before he gets the chance to put the cherry on his sundae so to speak.

[UndertheHalo]

I don’t want to do the “Ive been saying that” thing.  But I’ve tried to bring it up in various threads many times this season.  I am more concerned about the way the Angels front office is structured then am I am about the abilities of Billy Eppler.  The Angels seem to be using a model that the best teams in baseball don’t use anymore.  

Anyway, what I’m saying is that yes. I would be interested in something like what @eligrba is talking about.  I do think that if you want to keep him around Eppler would have to be the top man (president of baseball ops).  And I would be fine with that.  

Edited September 29, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[Claude]

Eppler’s not going anywhere. Arte will extend him next season after we get back to .500 which will be considered progress.

[UndertheHalo]

5 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Eppler’s not going anywhere. Arte will extend him next season after we get back to .500 which will be considered progress.

Jesus.  You don’t have to be like this all the time.  Give it a rest man.  You keep saying that you want to team to win and all that bullshit.   But you always seem to revel in the teams failure  and the disappointment of everyone here.  We get it.  It’s not going great.  Shut up. 

Edited September 29, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Calzone 2 said:

Eppler’s not going anywhere. Arte will extend him next season after we get back to .500 which will be considered progress.

No he won't. 

If the Angels finish at .500 next year, neither Eppler or Ausmus will be back.

[Second Base]

Buster is an entertainer, via print. And as we can see, he's good at it. Doing something like this gets Angels and Red Sox fans alike talking, and as we've seen from this thread Angels fans are either passionate about Eppler staying or passionate about him leaving. Red Sox fans are obviously passionate too. So good for Buster.

My problem with letting Eppler go is that you'd be letting him go without seeing the product of his work. Cleaning up Dipoto's mess took time. Building his own internal staff took time. This want the sorry of thing that could be fixed in just a couple years. 

And I think that's where Olney doesn't go with this. Yes, this organization was a mess but that wasn't Arte, that was Dipoto. Dipoto's scouting staff was the worst in the game. Dipoto was the one that wanted Albert, but it was Arte that spoke with him personally that made it happen. It was Dipoto that wanted Wilson. Arte wanted Hamilton, but Dipoto obviously wasn't going to fight him on it, even though he should have because of the financial strain it placed on the organization. Dipoto's the one that wanted Baldoquin, Dipoto's the one that ignored Latin American signings and actively traded away our international slots for years. Dipoto was the one that was the one giving away to draft picks them using whatever he had left on college seniors. Dipoto was the one that alienated those not in his inner circle and clashed with Scioscia. 

So Eppler comes in and he has to undo all that was done. Getting the team back in the black financially takes 3 of Eppler being conservative in free agency. Building the right minor league staff and international presence took 2 years. Rebuilding the minor league system itself too 3-4 years, which is faster than anyone would've guessed. Enjoying the fruits of the newly rebuilt minor league system will take another 3 years after the 3 years rescuing it. Building the necessary rapport with the players so that they trust him is a constant on going thing. Trout signed his extension out of trust. Ohtani signed with the Angels because of trust. Jahmai Jones switched to 2B because of trust. Ward switches to 3B and then the outfield and Thaiss picks up 3B because of trust. Maitan signs with the Angels because he trusts Eppler's vision for him as a ball player. 

Give it until 2020, and we'll start to see those prospects positively impact the team. In 2019 many got their first taste, in 2020, it will be time to make adjustments. Come 2021, I fully expect Jo Adell, Brandon Marsh, Luis Rengifo and possibly Jones or Thaiss to be everyday players in the majors, and I expect Canning, Sandoval, Suarez and Barria will be steady members of a major league rotation. In 2021, I also expect our higher end prospects like Jordyn Adams, Will Wilson, Kevin Maitan, Chris Rodriguez and Jose Soriano will all be in the high minors and will all have taken rather large steps forward in their development as players and will begin impacting the major league roster in 2022. And the guys at the lower levels, like Jeremiah Jackson, Jack Kochanowicz, Kyren Paris, Knowles, Deveaux, Arol Vera, Alex Ramirez... They should all be in A Ball or High A by then.

And then supplementing that steady stream of minor league talent will be on Eppler this winter.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that Eppler's impact as the GM still hasn't been fully recognized in the organization in 2019. It won't be fully recognized until 2022 in my opinion. The Angels, or more specifically Arte can get rid of him before then if they don't trust his vision or how it will work out, and I would understand why if they did. Ultimately it comes down to winning and we haven't won under Eppler. 

Only picking up his option was actually a smart move by After though. Give Eppler the financial freedom to spend, and see what he does with it. See if the fruits of labor down on the farm from the past few years begin to materialize. If this team jumps back into the 90 win range, extend Eppler for another 3 years. If it doesn't, then you'll know it's time to go a different direction.

[arch stanton]

8 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I don’t want to do the “Ive been saying that” thing.  But I’ve tried to bring it up in various threads many times this season.  I am more concerned about the way the Angels front office is structured then am I am about the abilities of Billy Eppler.  The Angels seem to be using a model that the best teams in baseball don’t use anymore.  

Anyway, what I’m saying is that yes. I would be interested in something like what @eligrba is talking about.  I do think that if you want to keep him around Eppler would have to be the top man (president of baseball ops).  And I would be fine with that.  

I think the reason these teams have that structure is that when you poach from another team you have to be offering a promotion so calling him president of baseball operations is just semantics

[UndertheHalo]

13 minutes ago, arch stanton said:

I think the reason these teams have that structure is that when you poach from another team you have to be offering a promotion so calling him president of baseball operations is just semantics

I don’t think it’s just semantics.  I think that these teams are organized differently and I think it’s possible that it is more efficient/effective. 

[floplag]

Tricky one... for me it comes down to how soon do you want to win.

Eppler has shown signs of brilliance when it comes to farm building and repairing the damage left by previous GMs in terms of a broken and barren farm.
BUT...
WE just watched the ML club go thru its worst season in nearly 2 decades in terms of win/loss, and suffer thru one disappointment after another, all with a roster that 100% didnt justify that result and the best player on the planet and overall took a giant step backwards at the top.

Around here weve had all thee conversation about when this club is going to be primed to compete, and it seems to be a sliding scale we keep moving further and further away.    The kids showed promise, but did any of them really really look ML ready for '20?

WE all know the plan at this point, its clear, but did this year give you confidence in it anytime soon at the top of the org?

[Vlad27Trout27]

I think letting Eppler go would be a mistake, unless you replace him with Theo or Friedman. Even thought the records have not been kind to him, he has done a lot. Signed Ohtani, trout, and than build a solid farm system. The things that have pushed him back, are the injuries and than the roster he got from Dipoto.   

[Claude]

52 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

No he won't. 

If the Angels finish at .500 next year, neither Eppler or Ausmus will be back.

Expectations are not the same here as in other organizations. Arte isn’t going to let Eppler go after this season. The damage was done by Arte and Dipoto. He knows that. Would Eppler survive Boston, LAD, Chicago or the Yankees with a 4th place finish? Hell no!

[Angel Oracle]

Don’t screw this Arte!

Remember what Reagins and Dumbpoto did to this franchise.

Dombrowski is overrated.   He set the Tiggers decline in motion.

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, UndertheHalo said:

Jesus.  You don’t have to be like this all the time.  Give it a rest man.  You keep saying that you want to team to win and all that bullshit.   But you always seem to revel in the teams failure  and the disappointment of everyone here.  We get it.  It’s not going great.  Shut up. 

You seriously can’t be surprised.   He’s that guy, every, single, time.  

[tdawg87]

18 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Dumbpoto

Dombrowski

You're slipping, AO. This one writes itself.

[Troll Daddy]

3 hours ago, Stradling said:

Or you can screw off.  Either way is cool with me.  

Lol anybody who says anything negative about you  ... you delete the post.

prove me right 

[floplag]

I keep hearing this "considering the roster he inherited" argument... and while that true in regard to the farm its narrow sighted overall.
The ML club has actually gone backwards in a huge way winning fewer and fewer games.  
Going into today we have 72 wins.  We had 80 in ''17 and '18, 74 in '16.  In short, Eppler has has yet to have a winning season with us to date. 
For all DiPoto's faults, he never lost that many.  Now im not saying i want him back or anyone like him, but at some point this plan needs to translate into wins where it counts, in the AL west not the California league. 
This build the farm plan, like any other plan, cannot be open ended and go on forever, it needs to produce something at some point.
How long does he get?

[UndertheHalo]

29 minutes ago, Stradling said:

You seriously can’t be surprised.   He’s that guy, every, single, time.  

I’d like for him to be less shitty. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

Wait...can we trade Eppler?

Let's throw Pujols in to sweeten the deal.

[Stradling]

21 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

I’d like for him to be less shitty. 

Good luck.