Buster Olney on Eppler, Arte, and the Red Sox

[Stradling]

Ok @beatlesrule who is the best GM the Angels have had and why?  

[eligrba]

1 minute ago, failos said:

The Angels were great when he was GM.

Seriously?  You can't possibly connect those dots with any credible evidence.

[failos]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

Because of him?  

Probably not. But as a fan I care about seeing a winning team, and they were winning under Reagins. Now, he’s obviously not better than Eppler, but he was forced to make questionable moves due to Arte’s insistence.

[Stradling]

Just now, eligrba said:

Seriously?  You can't possibly connect those dots with any credible evidence.

Well if we are being honest our single best draft and possibly the best draft in the history of baseball is when he was the GM, that was followed by one of the worst drafts we have ever had.

[Claude]

3 minutes ago, failos said:

I will say that I would rather keep Eppler if Boston is clamoring for him

Red Sox Nation would have Eppler’s head on a stick with a 4th place finish. It’s a completely different environment with a lot of pressure to win. The Sox, Celtics, Bruins and Patriots are all under a microscope. Their fans are relentless. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, failos said:

The Angels were great when he was GM.

That was exactly my point. They were great when he was GM, but he was an awful GM.

[Stradling]

Just now, failos said:

Probably not. But as a fan I care about seeing a winning team, and they were winning under Reagins. Now, he’s obviously not better than Eppler, but he was forced to make questionable moves due to Arte’s insistence.

I get it, and if we are going to judge a GM by the results on the field, that happened while they were the GM then Reagins would be second behind Stoneman.  Look at Stoneman’s drafts, look at Reagins drafts.  Hell people hated Mike Port and he has a better draft record than Stoneman and it isn’t even close.

[failos]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

That was exactly my point. They were great when he was GM, but he was an awful GM.

ok, but why was he an awful GM? Is it because he did whatever Arte told him?

Edited September 29, 2019 by failos

[tdawg87]

Just now, failos said:

ok, but why was he an awful GM? Is it because he did whatever Arte told him?

That is based on absolutely nothing.

[failos]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

That is based on absolutely nothing.

I was under the impression that Arte really wanted Vernon Wells, no?

[eligrba]

I don't care if Eppler stays or goes.  If Eppler feels like he has more opportunities elsewhere than I wish him well.  This seems like the same conversation everyone had about Trout and leaving.

[Stradling]

So if we give guys like Reagins a free pass or Dipoto a free pass because of Arte’s interference by signing Albert (which isn’t completely on Arte even in the slightest) or Josh (ditto) or him forcing Reagins for trading for Wells.  Then shouldn’t Eppler be given the same free pass for Arte not spending for a couple of years, and unwillingness to spend more to get out of the problems he created?

[Stradling]

Also as someone pointed out part of a GMs job is to protect the owner from himself.  Eppler has done that pretty damn well.  

[failos]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So if we give guys like Reagins a free pass or Dipoto a free pass because of Arte’s interference by signing Albert (which isn’t completely on Arte even in the slightest) or Josh (ditto) or him forcing Reagins for trading for Wells.  Then shouldn’t Eppler be given the same free pass for Arte not spending for a couple of years, and unwillingness to spend more to get out of the problems he created?

I’m certainly not giving those guys a free pass. Dipoto made some very damaging moves independent of signing Pujols and Hamilton. Dipoto is a trash fire of a GM—Reagins is better imo

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, failos said:

I was under the impression that Arte really wanted Vernon Wells, no?

Everyone I have ever asked about it working for other teams says that when Reagins butchered the Crawford situation he was told to make sure he got something done.   When teams got wind of it they started to seek out Reagins in hopes of getting a deal done.   How much of that was heresay I dunno, but people in Cinci, Boston, and NYY all had the same story -- Wells wasn't the actual target so much as he the end result.

[nate]

30 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Honestly, the difference between Stoneman and Eppler is Stoneman had the open check book to sign Vladdy, Colon, Guillen and Escobar. If Eppler signed Escobar people would lose their shit because of how often he was injured.  They would lose their shit about Colon and his drop off.  Or the fact that Colon had one year of the four with an ERA+ over 100.  Eppler has been better at drafting.  And neither of trade significant prospects.  Sure Stoneman signed Weaver, but times were different then and you could go way over slot to sign a guy and it didn’t affect your ability to sign other draftees.  They say a lot of the time it is the next guy that gets the praise, that will probably be the case here as well, sadly.  

Stoneman also inherited a great scouting staff.  Eppler basically had to start over with nothing.

[failos]

5 minutes ago, eligrba said:

I don't care if Eppler stays or goes.  If Eppler feels like he has more opportunities elsewhere than I wish him well.  This seems like the same conversation everyone had about Trout and leaving.

Ok, but let’s say Eppler wants to stay. How much more time do you give him before you make the change? He’s had 4 years: did some good, some bad.

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, nate said:

Stoneman also inherited a great scouting staff.  Eppler basically had to start over with nothing.

Yea, I wasn’t aware of that.  I had never thought of whether or not Stoneman built his own staff.

[Glen]

Y'all are a bunch of dopes.

[Stradling]

Just now, failos said:

Ok, but let’s say Eppler wants to stay. How much more time do you give him before you make the change? He’s had 4 years: did some good, some bad.

I’d give him a three year extension right now.  

[Stradling]

If he goes out and has a good offseason I could see an extension happening before the start of the year.  

[Inside Pitch]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

So if we give guys like Reagins a free pass or Dipoto a free pass because of Arte’s interference by signing Albert (which isn’t completely on Arte even in the slightest) or Josh (ditto) or him forcing Reagins for trading for Wells.  Then shouldn’t Eppler be given the same free pass for Arte not spending for a couple of years, and unwillingness to spend more to get out of the problems he created?

You are wasting your time.   

I don't mean this as a slight towards you, or the people you are arguing with but the sort of person that bases everything on results and ignores the bigger picture doesn't care about the sort of things you are willing to give Eppler credit for -- it's win or go home.   This is purely a different strokes for different folks situation.

I understand wanting to disprove falsehoods but this is just a simple case of people seeing things differently.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

You are wasting your time.   

I don't mean this as a slight towards you, or the people you are arguing with but the sort of person that bases everything on results and ignores the bigger picture doesn't care about the sort of things you are willing to give Eppler credit for -- it's win or go home.   This is purely a different strokes for different folks situation.

I understand wanting to disprove falsehoods but this is just a simple case of people seeing things differently.

Shut up, nerd. Let us argue.

[Stradling]

It’s all about context @Inside Pitch.  Some people understand that while others either don’t or choose to ignore it.  

[failos]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If he goes out and has a good offseason I could see an extension happening before the start of the year.  

I would be fine with that.