Buster Olney on Eppler, Arte, and the Red Sox

[nate]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I wasn’t aware of that.  I had never thought of whether or not Stoneman built his own staff.

Stoneman certainly improved upon it, but he had a great starting platform.  Eppler took over for the apocalyptic landscape left to him by Dipoto

[Inside Pitch]

9 hours ago, nate said:

Stoneman also inherited a great scouting staff.  Eppler basically had to start over with nothing.

The people you want to give credit for the Tim Salmons and the sort were gone by then, the only real holdout from the Port days was Kotchman...  The Mike Port Angels had a very very strong scouting staff which Bavasi Jr., actually came out of.   Still, your statement rings true for different reasons.  When he came over he brought over the Sutherland brothers and most of the Expos' scouting staff.   One of the Sutherlands was named scouting director of the decade by BBA while in Montreal.   There was no team in MLB better at finding talent in those days than Les Expos.

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

If he goes out and has a good offseason I could see an extension happening before the start of the year.  

If he signs Cole I'll give him an extension.

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

If he signs Cole I'll give him an extension.

You’re talking about your wiener again, aren’t you?

[eligrba]

14 minutes ago, failos said:

Ok, but let’s say Eppler wants to stay. How much more time do you give him before you make the change? He’s had 4 years: did some good, some bad.

I think the best way I can understand where Eppler started from 4 years ago is to image the Angels as an expansion team.  Therefore, I give him three more years to take this expansion team and develop the culture and the talent to make a sustainable contender.  The only concern for me is if Eppler wants to stay and the Angels get impatient with him.  His GM experience is still very little and mistakes will happen.  I am not an insider but Eppler's success at getting Ohtani, signing Trouts extension, having no clubhouse or personnel issues, keeping Albert happy (declining HOF player is an organization's nightmare), developing a farm system that might start paying dividends, getting better at finding players who can fill roles are all reasons for me to want to let him continue working.  I would love to have the opportunity to watch a winning team but I have been watching this team since the mid 70's when I wondered why the Angels even bothered with a farm system.

I do want a new manager.  Ausmus is an idiot.

Edited September 29, 2019 by eligrba

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The people you want to give credit for the Tim Salmons and the sort were gone by then, the only real holdout from the Port days was Kotchman...  The Mike Port Angels had a very very strong scouting staff of which Bavasi actually came out of.   Still, your statement rings true for different reasons.  When he came over he brought over the Sutherland brothers and most of the Expos' scouting staff.   One of the Sutherlands was named scouting director of the decade by BBA while in Montreal.   There was no team in MLB better at finding talent in those days than Les Expos.

Was it one of the Sutherlands that started the downfall of our Latin American operations?  

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

You’re talking about your wiener again, aren’t you?

[Inside Pitch]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I wasn’t aware of that.  I had never thought of whether or not Stoneman built his own staff.

The statement was incorrect -- he built his own staff.  He stole Donny Rowland from the Yankees -- brought in the Sutherlands -- moved Forsch up to assistant GM.   The Bob Fontaine Jr Staff responsible for the 95 core was shown the door in 99.

Fontaine was one of the guys Buzzie and Peter Bavasi brought into baseball while with the Padres.   Fontaine followed Buzzie over from the Padres and became director in like 87.

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Was it one of the Sutherlands that started the downfall of our Latin American operations?  

Nope -- Clay Daniel.

[Inside Pitch]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

It’s all about context @Inside Pitch.  Some people understand that while others either don’t or choose to ignore it.  

I get what you're trying to do..  But you'll be as successful talking context to a goldfish as you will fans of scoreboard.  

[John Taylor]

I'm trying to remember at what point every AW thread started to devolve into people attacking each other, it definitely seems to be more prevalent than it used to be...it's like Lord of the Flies around here lately lol

[Jay]

No great revelations in Olney's remarks, just the standard conventional wisdom from Angels fans.

 

 

 

[GrittyVeterans]

Eppler is an average GM, nothing more. Nothing less.

 

If you want to interpret that as a good or bad thing, it's up to you

[nate]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

The people you want to give credit for the Tim Salmons and the sort were gone by then, the only real holdout from the Port days was Kotchman...  The Mike Port Angels had a very very strong scouting staff of which Bavasi actually came out of.   Still, your statement rings true for different reasons.  When he came over he brought over the Sutherland brothers and most of the Expos' scouting staff.   One of the Sutherlands was named scouting director of the decade by BBA while in Montreal.   There was no team in MLB better at finding talent in those days than Les Expos.

Not just Kotchman, also the Latin America scouting staff and much of the minor league scouting staff.

[Jay]

1 minute ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Eppler is an average GM, nothing more. Nothing less.

If you want to interpret that as a good or bad thing, it's up to you

Average is looking pretty good these days.

 

[UndertheHalo]

This is just typical Olney.  More of the every organization is just a development system for NYY, BOS, LAD, and maybe the Cubs bullshit.  It’s just nonsense.  It’ll be a cold day in hell when Arte allows Boston to come and grant ascension to the heavens of MLB for one of his employees .  And lol at this idea of a trade.  

How do they have any idea that Moreno is “unhappy” with Eppler ? 

Maintaining flexibility is not a signal of discontent.  If they wanted to get rid of Eppler they would have done so.  

Anyway.  I said in the Maddon thread that my main concern with changes at this point are that it may signal disorder in the organization. That is potentially a big problem.  Getting rid of Eppler right now would be massive sign of organizational chaos and frankly a disaster.  Arte can’t be that dumb and if he is.  It’s time for him to sell the team.  Stick to the fuc*king plan. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Eppler is an average GM, nothing more. Nothing less.

 

If you want to interpret that as a good or bad thing, it's up to you

How dare you call him average! That's such a ridiculous, controversial take! REEEEEEEEE

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, nate said:

Not just Kotchman, also the Latin America scouting staff and much of the minor league scouting staff.

Nope.   Also gone with Fontaine almost everyone involved other than the guys that handled the administrative stuff like Abe Flores went with Fontaine Jr to the White Sox  .   

The guy that headed up the international staff (under Stoneman) was Clay Daniel (hired in 2000) and he personally signed Aybar, Morales Santana....

I knew all those guys really really well.  They were all gone.

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Calzone 2 said:

ex-Yankee Eppler probably wouldn’t be a good fit in Boston. 

Why not?  He understands the rivalry better than most...

[Docwaukee]

@Inside Pitch saved this thread and made it interesting.  It would be nice to keep it that way considering it's an interesting take from Buster regardless of whether it's grounded in actual truth.  

[eligrba]

12 minutes ago, John Taylor said:

I'm trying to remember at what point every AW thread started to devolve into people attacking each other, it definitely seems to be more prevalent than it used to be...it's like Lord of the Flies around here lately lol

The same number of posts for attacking to commence happens to be the same number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop

[John Taylor]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

The same number of posts for attacking to commence happens to be the same number of licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop

1.........2............3.........*crunch*

 

Thank you Mr. Owl

[GrittyVeterans]

12 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

This is just typical Olney.  More of the every organization is just a development system for NYY, BOS, LAD, and maybe the Cubs bullshit.  It’s just nonsense.  It’ll be a cold day in hell when Arte allows Boston to come and grant ascension to to the heavens of MLB for one of his employees .  And lol at this idea of a trade.  

How do they have any idea that Moreno is “unhappy” with Eppler ? 

Maintaining flexibility is not a signal of discontent.  If they wanted to get rid of Eppler they would have done so.  

Anyway.  I said in the Maddon thread that my main concern with changes at this point are that it may signal disorder in the organization. That is potentially a big problem.  Getting rid of Eppler right now would be massive sign of organizational chaos and frankly a disaster.  Arte can’t be that dumb and if he is.  It’s time for him to sell the team.  Stick to the fuc*king plan. 

He will either be offered an extension this offseason, or he's gone. You don't go in to a situation with a lame duck GM too often. 

Whether you like it or not, the idea of him not being here long term is not far-fetched. Olney is not saying anything ground breaking, he's just looking at the basic reality of his contract status and connecting some dots Is it the right decision to move on? I have no opinion on that because like I said, he's average. 

Some of you guys have this idea in your head that he's a Friedman/Epstein/Cashman/Beane level executive. I wish that were true, but so far reality does not come close to backing that up. He also isn't Reagins or Dipoto bad either. Average.

 

[Inside Pitch]

BTW --  Reagins and Bill Bavasi both came out of the administrative side of the Angels farming dept -- and honestly it showed.   Neither guy was all that great at judging talent but both had a lot of success as the paper pushing types that kept things working right.  Stoneman and now Eppler both brought in well regarded scouts and installed them as farm directors.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, GrittyVeterans said:

He will either be offered an extension this offseason, or he's gone. You don't go in to a situation with a lame duck GM too often. 

I would be surprised to see him get extended anytime before midseason.  I fully believe it's a put up or shut up year for him.   I don't say that as a slam, I believe he's done an amazing job of rebuilding things but Arte may be looking for results, especially if he is indeed allowed to spend.