2020 Democratic Field

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, angelinkc said:

I am sure there are more studies with varying results but mothers health is not the reason backing most abortions. I may be ok with those but the world would be a better place if we could fix the rest.  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5957082/ 

 

I said late term abortions.  Which is what I understand the baby murder stuff to be about.  And it’s not just the mothers health tho that is a reason for it.  Most often the reason for late term abortions are severe deformities that in general will result in a child who’s prospects of survival are extremely low.  My understanding that these types of abortions represent 1% of abortions conducted in the United States. 

[angelinkc]

Just now, UndertheHalo said:

I said late term abortions.  Which is what I understand the baby murder stuff to be about.  And it’s not just the mothers health tho that is a reason for it.  Most often the reason for late term abortions are severe deformities that in general will result in a child who’s prospects of survival are extremely low.  My understanding that these types of abortions represent 1% of abortions conducted in the United States. 

That may be true. I have never really looked at the numbers on those. However, I believe most modern Dem politicians support extending the terms later and later. Very few pro life Dem politicians anymore. With self control and birth control there really shouldn't be this many abortions during any period. The Dems always claim to support the poor, minorities, and persecuted. There is no debating the baby is defenseless and can be removed from the mother and live in most cases. Why don't they defend this population? They defend unborn wildlife but babies not so much

[Angelsjunky]

Another thought that was inspired by last night's debate, and it is rather worrisome. Notice how Buttigieg and Klobuchar were the only ones that didn't go hard at Bloomberg. I'm thinking maybe they were both approached by Bloomberg, who said "I don't really intend on being president, just forcing a brokered convention to screw Bernie. I'll throw my delegates and money behind someone else, and I'm banking on one of the two of you to be the anointed one."

In other words, this hypothetical scenario sees everyone staying in until the convention in the hopes that the DNC will pick them over Bernie, who will almost certainly have the most delegates but not a majority.  At the convention, the DNC and Bloomberg pick either Buttigieg or Klobuchar to be the nominee; Joe's too senile and Warren is shifty and may actually still have some progressivism in her. They'll then try to get a quasi-progressive like Stacy Abrams or Cory Booker to be VP, in a desperate attempt to gain back Bernie supporters. It doesn't work and voila, four more years of Trump.

Of course the thought that really excites me is that Bernie says fuck you and runs as an independent, with Tulsi Gabbard as his VP. They wouldn't win, but at least it would be bold, and they might just get a solid 20% to make a third party viable in 2024.

[Spirit]

9 hours ago, angelinkc said:

As for equal rights, I fully believe a man can dress and screw whoever he chooses. He just doesn't have the right to ... destroy women in a boxing match.

 

If the woman knows who she's fighting and agrees to the match, why doesn't he have that "right?"

 

[Blarg]

7 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Of course the thought that really excites me is that Bernie says fuck you and runs as an independent, with Tulsi Gabbard as his VP.

As much as I like Gabbard and would vote for her in the general election, I can't stomach Sanders. 

[Taylor]

10 hours ago, angelinkc said:

That may be true. I have never really looked at the numbers on those. However, I believe most modern Dem politicians support extending the terms later and later. Very few pro life Dem politicians anymore. With self control and birth control there really shouldn't be this many abortions during any period. The Dems always claim to support the poor, minorities, and persecuted. There is no debating the baby is defenseless and can be removed from the mother and live in most cases. Why don't they defend this population? They defend unborn wildlife but babies not so much

I'm a pro-life progressive (I'm not registered as a Democrat). I would love to see a world where abortion is no longer seen as a desirable option.

However, I recognize that the majority of women who have abortions do so because they believe they have no other choice. The article you cited mentioned "socioeconomic reasons" for abortions. Women who are poor, and who have little support from family, often don't see how they can possibly raise a child. Sure, they made the choice to have unprotected or unsafe sex, which can result in pregnancy. But Dad, who gleefully participated in the unsafe sex, is now refusing to have anything to do with a baby and is encouraging (read: manipulating and strong-arming) his girlfriend to have an abortion. Or, he disappears altogether.

This kind of situation happens more often than most conservatives seem willing to admit. They want to paint women who are considering abortions as selfish and simply wishing to not have the baby because it's inconvenient. It's often way more complicated than that.

As a Christian, I believe the church needs to step up and support women who are in this situation. Surround them with people who will help them financially and emotionally during the pregnancy. Help them find a couple who would be willing to adopt the baby, or people who will help them learn how to raise the child on their own.

Just my two cents.

Edited February 21, 2020 by Taylor

[Taylor]

8 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

Of course the thought that really excites me is that Bernie says fuck you and runs as an independent, with Tulsi Gabbard as his VP. They wouldn't win, but at least it would be bold, and they might just get a solid 20% to make a third party viable in 2024.

The conservatives who drool over Tulsi would have very strange boners if this happened.

[Lhalo]

Most abortions happen in this country because the dumb bitch got knocked up and doesn't want to deal with having a kid.

[Taylor]

4 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

Most abortions happen in this country because the dumb bitch douchebag got knocked up his girl and doesn't want to deal with having a kid.

Fixed.

[Lhalo]

1 minute ago, Taylor said:

Fixed.

Men can force women to have an abortion? This is news to me.

[Taylor]

Just now, Lhalo said:

Men can force women to have an abortion? This is news to me.

They don't force them at gunpoint, but they'll say things like, "I'll leave you if you have this kid," or, "Dumb bitch, you better take care of this." Or they'll simply disappear. The term "deadbeat dad" didn't come out of nowhere.

I'm sure there are cases where the father actually wants the mother to have the baby, but the mother is insistent on having an abortion. But from my research, that doesn't seem as common as the alternate scenario.

[Lhalo]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

But from my research, that doesn't seem as common as the alternate scenario.

I look forward to your published report on the matter.

[Taylor]

3 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

I look forward to your published report on the matter.

I don't need to publish a report. The research is already out there.

https://www.guttmacher.org/perspectives50/womens-reasons-having-abortion

Quote

Why do women in the United States have abortions? An analysis published in Perspectives in 2005 used a mixed-methods approach to examine this question—a topic that had not been investigated for nearly 20 years. In the study, researchers from the Guttmacher Institute compared quantitative data from 2004 and 1987 surveys, and found that the main reasons women cited for ending pregnancies were the same in both: Having a baby would dramatically interfere with their education, work or ability to care for their dependents, or they could not afford a baby at the time. In addition, qualitative data from in-depth interviews portrayed women who had had an abortion as typically feeling that they had no other choice, given their limited resources and existing responsibilities to others. This innovative study has had an important impact on the literature, having been cited in more than 125 articles as of this writing.

 

[Taylor]

For the record: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/alan-guttmacher-institute/

[Blarg]

For the record, stop that.

 

[Taylor]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

For the record, stop that.

Ha, if I didn't do it, someone would have.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

99%+ of those women interviewed had the choice to use some form of birth control but chose not to.  I'm not saying that to put the onus of using birth control on just women rather if you have a one night stand, casual relationship, are with someone who doesn't want kids or don't think your partner is someone you want to have kids with then take steps to prevent that from happening.  I've got friends who didn't act responsibly and they'll be dealing with women they don't get along with for the rest of their lives because they have a kid together and they deserve just as much of the blame.  I'm fine with a woman's right to choose but abortions shouldn't be used as a form of birth control like they are for some individuals who have had multiple.  Most abortions are the result of irresponsible adults. 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

99%+ of those women interviewed had the choice to use some form of birth control but chose not to.  I'm not saying that to put the onus of using birth control on just women rather if you have a one night stand, casual relationship, are with someone who doesn't want kids or don't think your partner is someone you want to have kids with then take steps to prevent that from happening.  I've got friends who didn't act responsibly and they'll be paying for it having to deal with women they don't get along with for the rest of their lives because they have a kid together.  I'm fine with a woman's right to choose but abortions shouldn't be used as a form of birth control like they are for some individuals who have had multiple.  Most abortions are the result of irresponsible adults. 

Where does the father's responsibility come into it? Yes, the mother had unprotected sex, which as a stupid choice. But there were two participants in that choice.

If you had a daughter who got pregnant out of wedlock, how would you respond? "Tough luck, kid. You're on your own with no support from us. Oh, and if you get an abortion, we'll be even more ashamed of you."

If that scenario happened to me, I'd say something like, "I'm very disappointed that you put yourself in this position. However, you mother and I love you very much, and our priority now is to make sure this kid is born healthy and happy." I know several families who responded this way to this scenario, and the children were able to be born and cared for.

However, many of these women are in poverty and don't have the support of their parents, family, friends, or neighbors. They feel totally alone. I don't like abortion, but I don't judge them for making that choice if they feel like it's their only choice. 

[Tank]

16 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

I'm fine with a woman's right to choose but abortions shouldn't be used as a form of birth control like they are for some individuals who have had multiple.  Most abortions are the result of irresponsible adults. 

i agree.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

I answered your first question in my second sentence saying the onus isn't all on the women and I even said further on in my post that any guy in that situation deserves just as much credit.  That said, if a woman is sleeping with someone they don't want to have a kid with for whatever reason then be on some form of birth control or make your partner put on a condom.  If he isn't willing to then that just reinforces that he's not the type of person you should be having a kid with because he's irresponsible.  One of my friends who now has a kid was under the impression his partner was on birth control.  Turns out she wasn't and all of us were skeptical of her actually being on something from the get go.  Turns out he was playing Russian roulette and didn't know it but that's just as much on him.

I'm not religious or old fashioned as far as someone having to be married to have a kid.  If my daughter got pregnant I would just want her to at least think she's ready to have a kid financially and emotionally.  I know that no one is really ever ready for the changes that having a kid will bring but I would at least hope that people who are having a kid are up to the task because it's not something you should limp into.  Obviously that isn't the case and that's why we've got a lot of absentee parents or worthless parents who are there but might as well not be.  I was raised by a single parent who was up to the task and had a dad who may as well have not been there that I haven't talked to in 20 years so I saw both sides.  I ended up knowing or gravitating to friends who were in single parent households and not all of them had parents up to the task and it showed as quite a few didn't graduate high school.  If my kids ever come home and say "I'm pregnant" or "I"m getting married" that's great but I would expect in that situation they are either already out of the house on their own two feet or have an exit plan.  Would I kick a daughter out in that situation?  No but I'd be pretty pissed off if she's bringing a kid into the world she isn't ready for.  

Take it for what it's worth but the Brookings Institute (incoming fact check) in 2013 came out with a list of things to teach kids to help them avoid poverty https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

"Let politicians, schoolteachers and administrators, community leaders, ministers and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.

Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class (defined as earning around $55,000 or more per year). There are surely influences other than these principles at play, but following them guides a young adult away from poverty and toward the middle class." 

All three of those things are something that able bodied adults of sound mind are all capable of.  If you don't have a good support system or one at all, are uneducated and already living in poverty then at least try to finish high school, have a job and wait on having kids.  People who don't shouldn't be vilified but at the same time they aren't off the hook for their choices.  At a point in life no matter what your situation was growing up you're an adult, you're responsible for your own choices and blaming someone else doesn't fly.

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

Where does the father's responsibility come into it? Yes, the mother had unprotected sex, which as a stupid choice. But there were two participants in that choice.

If you had a daughter who got pregnant out of wedlock, how would you respond? "Tough luck, kid. You're on your own with no support from us. Oh, and if you get an abortion, we'll be even more ashamed of you."

If that scenario happened to me, I'd say something like, "I'm very disappointed that you put yourself in this position. However, you mother and I love you very much, and our priority now is to make sure this kid is born healthy and happy." I know several families who responded this way to this scenario, and the children were able to be born and cared for.

However, many of these women are in poverty and don't have the support of their parents, family, friends, or neighbors. They feel totally alone. I don't like abortion, but I don't judge them for making that choice if they feel like it's their only choice. 

Anal sex solves all of this

[RallyMo]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

As much as I like Gabbard and would vote for her in the general election, I can't stomach Sanders. 

Good news! Rather than voting for Trump, you can write in whoever the f you'd like and not have to deal with the fact that your vote is completely unrepresentative of your stated values.

[Lou]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Anal sex solves all of this

He tried that, but then he couldn't sit down for a week

[Lou]

I'm curious as to which candidates the AW libs will be voting for in the upcoming primaries. 

[St1ck]

18 minutes ago, Lou said:

I'm curious as to which candidates the AW libs will be voting for in the upcoming primaries. 

Are you?