Fire Scioscia

[Tank]

4 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

I'm not much of a Bobby Cox fan, he managed in a weak division,  kind of like Scioscia. 

does that discredit what his teams brilliant leadership accomplished?

[Tank]

i'm pretty sure your chart lacks enough info to be taken seriously. what year? why isn't it for a complete season? and why are the braves in second place? i don't see how this helps your argument in any way, bob.

and while the braves may not have been in the toughest division, the fact that they got to the WS as many times as they did during cox's tenure speaks volumes about their on-the-field talent level as they had to get past the better teams in the playoffs (assuming they themselves weren't one of those better teams) to make it to the WS.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

Bobby Cox had the Braves in the playoffs 14 of 15 season in a row. He only won 1 World Series with the best assembled team in baseball. 

Plenty of opportunities.

Having been a Braves fan during that time, I can tell you the reason for at least part of that. GM John Schuerholz's obsession with glove men left him with few bats on the bench late in games. When you have to use Rafael Belliard as a pinch hitter with the game on the line, you're pretty much screwed.

They used Tom Glavine and Steve Avery as pinch hitters several times, because they were better hitters than the guys left on the bench.

[mtangelsfan]

10 minutes ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

Everything being equal, the Angels need a hitter, would rather get one that plays at PNC park or Coors field ? Over your head.

 

[Inside Pitch]

18 hours ago, ANAHEIMBOB said:

I think it does, baseball has changed over the years. In 1979 the Angels won the west division american league. They had the 5th best record in the American league. I'm glad they got into the postseason, but they played in a weak division. Most of Bobby Cox's postseason appearances came after they spit the divisions into three.  

Montreal Expos	74	40	.649	0	$18,771,000
Atlanta Braves	68	46	.596	6	$44,100,972
New York Mets	55	58	.487	18½	$30,903,583
Philadelphia Phillies	54	61	.470	20½	$31,143,000
Florida Marlins

2002 - Angels win WS , the third place team in AL West won 93 games.  

2004 - Angels win west, the third place team in the AL West won 89 games.

2005 - Angels win west, the third place team in the AL West won 79 games.

2007 - Angels win west, the fourth place team in the AL west won 75 games.

2008 - Angels win west, only team over .500

2009 - Angels win west, third place team in the AL West won 86 games.

Hate to break it to you BOB, but the only time the AL west played like a weak division was in 2008...  For most of the Angels golden run under MS, the AL West was one of the stronger divisions in MLB....   Go year by year and check the .vs Division records for all the teams, in many of those seasons the weaker AL West teams had winning records outside of the AL West..

Facts are a dangerous thing.

[JarsOfClay]

On 3/12/2018 at 3:56 PM, Inside Pitch said:

Tell Joe Maddon he is wrong...   He's the one making the claims...

It's called false modesty, go look it up.

 

[Inside Pitch]

45 minutes ago, JarsOfClay said:

It's called false modesty, go look it up.

Good Lord you're ignorant...   Perhaps you should take your advice and go look it up.... To argue that Maddon was guilty of false modesty is to insult the man...  You're basically saying he's an egotistical fake....  

 "Look it up"...   What a clown....

[Stradling]

1 hour ago, JarsOfClay said:

It's called false modesty, go look it up.

 

Haha.  Ok. Because some guys on a website don’t like the manager that means the manager they like is a liar.   

[Ohtaniland]

On 2/23/2018 at 4:14 PM, OHTANILAND said:

 

Sup Billy?

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

Sup Billy?

Yea Joe, I was wondering if you could manage the team?  

Joe-“have you fixed the bullpen?”

Billy-“well it’s a work in progress”

Joe-“click”

Billy-“hello?”

 

[nando714]

It’s not the managers fault

[Ohtaniland]

Just now, SuperTroopers said:

Yea Joe, I was wondering if you could manage the team?  

Joe-“have you fixed the bullpen?”

Billy-“well it’s a work in progress”

Joe-“click”

Billy-“hello?”

 

It’s more about change. You have to stop beating that drum. This team needs a foot in their ass and Sosh just won’t do it. Last year of his deal so they may as well make the change now. Sosh was great last decade but it’s time to put him out and give someone else a shot at motivating this club. 

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, nando714 said:

It’s not the managers fault

not tonight.  but he's probably mismanaged a crappy pen the last few games to make the team worse.  That said, very very little of it is his fault.  

[Docwaukee]

Just now, OHTANILAND said:

It’s more about change. You have to stop beating that drum. This team needs a foot in their ass and Sosh just won’t do it. Last year of his deal so they may as well make the change now. Sosh was great last decade but it’s time to put him out and give someone else a shot at motivating this club. 

It could be time.  However, expectations weren't that high in Billy's first couple years.  Now some missteps are important.  Like a bad pen, chris young, ian kinsler and zack cozart.  3 of 4  from that list were primary off season concerns/targets.  

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, OHTANILAND said:

It’s more about change. You have to stop beating that drum. This team needs a foot in their ass and Sosh just won’t do it. Last year of his deal so they may as well make the change now. Sosh was great last decade but it’s time to put him out and give someone else a shot at motivating this club. 

Sure ok.  I couldn’t  care less, but nothing will change with a new manager and the same team.  Not a damn thing except another name to blame.  

[Biergott]

Getting picked apart by a sub .500 team, falling into third place behind Diputo’s squad after such an hot and promising start sucks.  Lots and lots of baseball left but they need to wake up and we need a spark.  Closed door team meeting time.  Isn’t this why we brought vets like Kinsler in?  As much as I disliked him on the Rangers I’d love to see him light a fire under the team.  He always seemed good at that.  Need someone to get the team burning inside.  It’s been a long time since we’ve had a squad that gets amped up.  Someone to kick the team in the nuts right now, get them to sack up and get fired up, show some heart and passion.   What’s funny is that hot start in April felt that way, but once they hit Boston they had all that energy sucked right out.  They haven’t bounced back.  Yes they won some series and had good games against other good teams but the energy wasn’t the same.

yes these are major leaguers and no I don’t think hitting coaches, or managers have as much impact on the games as some think.  But inspiring the team and getting them to play hard and as a unit absolutely IS their job.  Im not saying fire Mike, hell many people calling for his head were speaking a different tone in April.   But I’d love for him to lose his cool, light the guys up, maybe get tossed from a game....something 

[Angel Oracle]

Not saying this is on Scioscia, other than a little odd strategy here and there.

But this season is reminding me of 1978, when they got off to a solid start under Dave Garcia and then tanked including a 17-2 loss to the mediocre that season ChiSox that led to Garcia’s dismissal in late May and Jim Fregosi’s hiring.   They proceeded to stay in the AL West race until 3rd week of September (no WCs then).

Not a lot that Scioscia can do, but maybe a fresh face is needed ultimately and they don’t renew his contract?

[CubsFan]

I haven't really followed the Halos that long but Soc seems like he's past his shelf life.  (like an Arsene Wenger).

The problem I see is that Ohtani has bought Soc 1-2 years.  I don't think they will fire him since Soc was part of the package that attracted Ohtani to Anaheim.  It would be too big a change to someone (Ohtani) who is already adjusting to a new country, culture, peoples and baseball league.  And they wouldn't want Ohtani to become disgruntled if his favorite and familiar manager is fired.

[hangin n wangin]

If we don’t at least make the wild card game, Scioscia does not deserve to be our manager next year. For shit sake already, he’s been here for like 20 years and we have made the playoffs once in the past eight. Who else has got resigned making the playoffs once in the past eight years? No idea but it can’t be a big list. The Scioscia era had its fun but damn.. He can’t coach this team forever.

[CubsFan]

27 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

If we don’t at least make the wild card game, Scioscia does not deserve to be our manager next year. For shit sake already, he’s been here for like 20 years and we have made the playoffs once in the past eight. Who else has got resigned making the playoffs once in the past eight years? No idea but it can’t be a big list. The Scioscia era had its fun but damn.. He can’t coach this team forever.

He's the longest tenured manager in all of baseball.

[Stradling]

42 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

If we don’t at least make the wild card game, Scioscia does not deserve to be our manager next year. For shit sake already, he’s been here for like 20 years and we have made the playoffs once in the past eight. Who else has got resigned making the playoffs once in the past eight years? No idea but it can’t be a big list. The Scioscia era had its fun but damn.. He can’t coach this team forever.

I agree.  The only disclaimer I would put on that is if Trout loves him and they thought it would increase our chances of resigning him.   But yes if we miss the playoffs there’s no reason to resign him.  Hell I am not even sure I’d bring him back if we make the playoffs.  I’m ready for some new narratives on here.   

[kevinb]

It’s funny some think a baseball manager actually makes that big of a difference on wins in losses. It’s not like they are calling play like in football and basketball. This offense has 7 guys in it who can’t hit. What are u supposed to do with that. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

What's frustrating is that we've changed GM's and pitching/hitting coaches and turned over practically the entire roster and minor league system, and yet we're still the same mediocre, underperforming team from years past that can't hit against anyone except the bottom teams in the AL and blows leads left and right. At some point you have to look at the one constant over all these years: the manager.

Also, many of us said before the season that this was finally the year that the team was good enough on paper to make the playoffs, and that should be the expectation. If we don't make the actual playoffs (as in, not just making the WC game and getting shut out by Sale), then Scioscia should be gone, barring significant injuries (which we haven't experienced yet). 

[Warfarin]

The team is performing to expectations right now.  This isn't an issue of Scoscia managing poorly.  Prior to the season, Fangraphs and other various publications projected us to be a 84-86 win team based on our talent level.  Right now, we are on a better pace than that, so I'd say we are doing fine.

Keep in mind that Dipoto basically destroyed our farm system and future as he was trying to "win now" as a GM.  He failed, and we were left with multiple bloated contracts and no significant young players to help re-vitalize our franchise.

It takes years to recover from that.  Eppler is a very good GM, but he can't magically infuse a ton of young talent all at once.  He has to draft and develop them, which again takes at least 3-4 years to do.  Furthermore, we did NOT engage in a teardown, which means we couldn't accelerate the process.  Instead, we tried to stay competitive and added some talent at small costs (i.e. the Upton and Kinsler trades, etc).  

So here we are now, 2.5 years after Eppler has taken over, and now we have a burgeoning farm system and are seeing some of those players make it to the big leagues (Barria, Hermosillo, etc).  Our outlook is much better, but this team is NOT on the same level as the Astros, Yankees, Red Sox at this current time.  We aren't far away, and we should be in the thick of the wild card hunt, but we aren't world beaters just yet.  Give it another 1-2 years, as more prospects reach the majors and some contracts expire, and we'll be in excellent shape.

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

What's frustrating is that we've changed GM's and pitching/hitting coaches and turned over practically the entire roster and minor league system, and yet we're still the same mediocre, underperforming team from years past that can't hit against anyone except the bottom teams in the AL and blows leads left and right. At some point you have to look at the one constant over all these years: the manager.

Also, many of us said before the season that this was finally the year that the team was good enough on paper to make the playoffs, and that should be the expectation. If we don't make the actual playoffs (as in, not just making the WC game and getting shut out by Sale), then Scioscia should be gone, barring significant injuries (which we haven't experienced yet). 

We have a good team, but to say they are underperforming is probably more due to age than anything else.   Also I’m sure even you a guy that dislikes Scioscia sees the difference in talent top to bottom from 10-12 years ago to now.   We have two great players and possibly a third and a bunch of mediocre players.   Back then we had talent all over the field, and in the pen.   Now this just means that those teams could have performed with other managers which is probably true.   I don’t see the harm in replacing Scioscia, but the lack of talent isn’t on the manager.