Thoughts and Prayers

[mtangelsfan]

50 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Does anyone here think the NRA has genuinely noble intentions? If they went away, would our country be worse off?

It is a lobbying organization, what do you think?  

They aren't formed for emotion or noble intentions.  They are formed by people who want to either get something from the government or protect something from the government.

I just don't think the NRA is the issue.  People will have the right to own guns and want to own them unless you ditch the second amendment.  

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Tank said:

valid points, ocho. clearly, there's no simple or quick solution to this.

i didn't realize there was a potential gap in time for PTSD to show up. that would certainly complicate the ability to not only diagnose but treat/disarm.

Good chance this shooter just snapped. Unfortunately there isn’t a cure all to prevent all mental illness from developing like this. It’s a very complicated issues. Just like physical illness can be. Diagnosis and treatment aren’t always easy

[Jason]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

It is a lobbying organization, what do you think?  

They aren't formed for emotion or noble intentions.  They are formed by people who want to either get something from the government or protect something from the government.

I just don't think the NRA is the issue.  People will have the right to own guns and want to own them unless you ditch the second amendment.  

The left doesn’t want the 2nd amendment so it’s a pointless conversation 

[mtangelsfan]

I agree, what this shooting shows is that even California, which has some of the toughest gun restrictions in the country, cannot stop this from happening.  

[Thomas]

I long for the days when liberals scoffed at the notion that a depostic government would possibly ascend to leadership in this country and that the idea was a silly pipe dream by conservatives. Good times.

[yk9001]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

California, which has some of the toughest gun restrictions in the country

Yeah, super doooper tough.  Jesus.

Tough California gun laws are like talking about the skinniest woman at a Wal Mart McDonald's.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, yk9001 said:

Yeah, super doooper tough.  Jesus.

Tough California gun laws are like talking about the skinniest woman at a Wal Mart McDonald's.

In comparison to other states, they do.  

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, yk9001 said:

Yeah, super doooper tough.  Jesus.

Tough California gun laws are like talking about the skinniest woman at a Wal Mart McDonald's.

What? They don't have meth addicts at your local Walmart?

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

In comparison to other states, they do.  

you are factually correct.  I am not arguing that.

But in reality, they aren't strict AT ALL.

You want to shoot up a bar in california, there is nothing to stop you.  

[Tank]

11 minutes ago, Jason said:

Good chance this shooter just snapped. Unfortunately there isn’t a cure all to prevent all mental illness from developing like this. It’s a very complicated issues. Just like physical illness can be. Diagnosis and treatment aren’t always easy

my best friend from high school and college suffered quietly from depression for several years before taking his life. was driving drunk and got into a car accident. to avoid embarrassing his wife with the specter of jail time, he swallowed his gun. none of us had any idea that's where he was. probably could have been diagnosed as there were other signs that his family was aware of, but getting him in to see a professional would have been like pulling teeth. the TO shooter may have been in a similar position, although some have mentioned there were concerns about him plus the police had paid him a visit last spring.

such a complex issue. may not be able to fix it completely but would desperately like to see some movement to help more and possibly prevent some of these devastating attacks. but, you know, status quo will continue, and we all know it.

[mtangelsfan]

Just now, yk9001 said:

you are factually correct.  I am not arguing that.

But in reality, they aren't strict AT ALL.

You want to shoot up a bar in california, there is nothing to stop you.  

This is true.  People are able to do a whole lot of bad things.  

What is your solution?  

[mtangelsfan]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

my best friend from high school and college suffered quietly from depression for several years before taking his life. was driving drunk and got into a car accident. to avoid embarrassing his wife with the specter of jail time, he swallowed his gun. none of us had any idea that's where he was. probably could have been diagnosed as there were other signs that his family was aware of, but getting him in to see a professional would have been like pulling teeth. the TO shooter may have been in a similar position, although some have mentioned there were concerns about him plus the police had paid him a visit last spring.

such a complex issue. may not be able to fix it completely but would desperately like to see some movement to help more and possibly prevent some of these devastating attacks. but, you know, status quo will continue, and we all know it.

Agreed, because it is too hard.  We the people and our government don't like things that are complex, things that don't have easy answers.  So we will get nothing or everything because this country has forgotten the middle. 

[Spirit]

13 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

you are factually correct.  I am not arguing that.

But in reality, they aren't strict AT ALL.

You want to shoot up a bar in california, there is nothing to stop you.  

 

Just banning and confiscating all guns.  Which I'm totally in favor of.

 

 

[yk9001]

4 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This is true.  People are able to do a whole lot of bad things.  

What is your solution?  

Oh, gee.  I just cannot for the life of me figure it out.

https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens

[mtangelsfan]

LOL

[Jason]

13 minutes ago, Tank said:

my best friend from high school and college suffered quietly from depression for several years before taking his life. was driving drunk and got into a car accident. to avoid embarrassing his wife with the specter of jail time, he swallowed his gun. none of us had any idea that's where he was. probably could have been diagnosed as there were other signs that his family was aware of, but getting him in to see a professional would have been like pulling teeth. the TO shooter may have been in a similar position, although some have mentioned there were concerns about him plus the police had paid him a visit last spring.

such a complex issue. may not be able to fix it completely but would desperately like to see some movement to help more and possibly prevent some of these devastating attacks. but, you know, status quo will continue, and we all know it.

The first thing is try and mitigate the negative stigma that is associated with mental illness. Nobody looks down on people that are physically ill. It needs to be that way for people who are mentally ill. If people feel ashamed, they won't seek the help they need. We absolutely need more investments made in our mental health system. As far as violence, mass shootings are a very small part of the problem. Gangs and drug crime make up a large chunk of it. There are a lot of cultural issues that must be addressed that everyone is afraid to talk about or even bring up.

[Jason]

14 minutes ago, Geoff said:

 

Just banning and confiscating all guns.  Which I'm totally in favor of.

 

 

What could possibly go wrong?

[yk9001]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

What could possibly go wrong?

I don't know.  A mass shooting every day?

Thousand Oaks makes 307 mass shootings in 311 days

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/11/08/thousand-oaks-california-bar-shooting-307th-mass-shooting/1928574002/

[Spirit]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

What could possibly go wrong?

 

Well, people would be driving to the drop off place to turn in their guns and I'm sure there would be a lot of car accident deaths with those people on the road.

But other than that, I'm sure it would be clear sailing.

 

 

[Jason]

16 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Agreed, because it is too hard.  We the people and our government don't like things that are complex, things that don't have easy answers.  So we will get nothing or everything because this country has forgotten the middle. 

Screaming about gun control when there are 100s of thousands of them out there isn't a solution to the underlying problems. It's an easy answer that makes people feel better and like their political candidate more. 

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Geoff said:

 

Well, people would be driving to the drop off place to turn in their guns and I'm sure there would be a lot of car accident deaths with those people on the road.

But other than that, I'm sure it would be clear sailing.

 

 

I'll be first in line

[Taylor]

38 minutes ago, Jason said:

The left doesn’t want the 2nd amendment so it’s a pointless conversation 

Not sure if I count as part of "the left," but I think "well-regulated" needs to be better defined. It's possible to be sensible without throwing out the second amendment.

[Tank]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

Screaming about gun control when there are 100s of thousands of them out there isn't a solution to the underlying problems. It's an easy answer that makes people feel better and like their political candidate more. 

but it should still be part of the discussion. just taking guns will not solve the problem (we've see that determined people often find a way to achieve whatever their goals are), but it shouldn't be completely off the table.

we all recognize the need for change. the issue is what kind of change can be made and how do we get there?

[yk9001]

F*ck it, there isn't going to be any change in our lifetimes.  We all know that.  Every frigging country in the world has figured it out but us.

The best you can do is hope you aren't in the gun sights when one of the gun nuts pops his cork.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Not sure if I count as part of "the left," but I think "well-regulated" needs to be better defined. It's possible to be sensible without throwing out the second amendment.

 Take a look at California’s  gun laws. What other gun laws would you suggest that we have that California doesn’t already?  Are there laws we don’t have that would prevent incidents like this from happening?