Rebuild? Time to consider it for fans, players

[budice0]

We've had some great players move on.  It's time for the Angels to rebuild.

Level with Trout, Pujols, and the fans.  Taking on bloated contracts to prop up what we have isn't getting the job done.  Yankees, Astros, Cubs, and others have a good plan.  Invest in youth for the longer term.

[Troll Daddy]

I already thought that was the plan 

[GrittyVeterans]

It's hard to do a full rebuild when Trout and Simmons are worth like 16 WAR on their own. Unless you want to trade them, which I don't

[Junkballer]

When you have a player like Trout and with his contract ending in 2020 it isn't as simple as that.  Were it not for Trout, I'd be on board with a true rebuild, but we are privileged to be in a situation where part of the equation is the retention of possibly one of the greatest players in the history of baseball.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

No it's not, we only need to fill 3B or 2B, and maybe another SP, if Upton doesn't opt out. Our farm system has improved and is a year or two away from having some ready to play for the big club.

[JustATroutFan]

Angels are not that far away from being a playoff team. It helps when you have a superstar like Trout but regardless, they do. They do need Richards to stay healthy next year and add another frontline starter. Darvish? Arrieta? Their bullpen is already really good. Starting rotation can use a boost. So if they add another frontline starter and Richards stays healthy and someone like Shoemaker and Tropeano produce well for #3 and #4 starters next year, this could be a playoff team.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

 

This isn't the NBA homie! We don't play that here...

[Stradling]

This is what a rebuild looks like when you ignore your farm for five years.  You don't trade Trout or Simmons in hopes of rebuilding the farm.  If you trade Calhoun are you really going to get something better back?  The starting pitchers are all too injury prone to bring back any value.  So Arte spends money on guys or he keeps his money and we are even worse.  This has been a rebuild for two years.  In case you haven't noticed we haven't signed anyone to more than a two year deal in 4 years.  The last three year deal was Joe Smith and he has been gone for a year.  Nolasco is done after this year.  So who is our oldest starting pitcher, Richards at 30?  THIS IS A REBUILD.  

[fan_since79]

Outfield is set if Upton stays put.

Infield, need upgrades at 3rd and 2nd, and possibly 1st base as well. Cron is not the future, I fear. Thaiss on the way?

Another good starting pitcher who's not prone to injury.

Bullpen, maybe another piece, but this is our strong suit so no major changes.

Manager? One more year and that's it!

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by fan_since79

[Docwaukee]

Rebuilds only work if you feel you are getting future value commensurate to current value.  

There is also some important math where having a specific player might actually offset (or come very close) their own salary just because of fan interest.  

So there are major financial repercussions to consider as well.  

If the Angels traded Trout, there would be very little fan interest in this team.  Fans weren't showing up when this year when they had a shot at the 2nd WC.  Why?  I think most fans (maybe not those here) are bored of the mediocre surrounding a franchise player.  

After the seattle series, the halos are going to end up with almost the exact same home attendance as they did last year during a 74 win season.  

I would wager that you give up at least 40mil in revenue if Trout isn't on the team anymore.  

So good luck convincing Arte that he's going to take a huge PR hit as well as a huge financial hit to bring in other players because it might lead the team to being better several years from now.   

Do Arte's math on that for a second.  Wouldn't he be better off just spending more and keeping Trout than trading him and losing the Trout revenue?  At worst it's likely even.  He's also 71 years old and he's got a golden goose.  He can stay below the CBT threshold and still get 3 mil fans to show up.  

Then there's the thought that you'd have to find a suitor for Trout that could give you what he's worth in return.  A franchise that's willing to significantly disrupt their major league club and/or decimate their franchise.  

The risk of trading Trout this far out from free agency is just too great.  You'd have to clearly win that trade if you are Eppler and Arte.  I am not seeing a way to guarantee that or even make it highly likely.  

[SoWhat]

Gtfo

[Angel Oracle]

Trout needs to stay.   The farm rebuild needs to continue.   Arte needs to pony up for SOLID acquisitions at 3B (Moose?, no 3B on the farm) and one starting pitcher (Chatwood?, solid road pitcher) and to keep Upton as the future DH.   Eppler is on the right path, maybe trade Skaggs to get high OBP 2B Hernandez, and Arte now needs to give him the money necessary.   No more duct tape like off-seasons!

[Mark68]

AO...I know you've mentioned trading Skaggs for Hernandez in several threads, but Skaggs alone will not get us Hernandez. It would have to be Skaggs + Sum Yung Gui(s). I don't think I'd want to pay that price.

[Pujols4MVP]

3 hours ago, SlappyUtilityMIF said:

BWHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!

 

This isn't the NBA homie! We don't play that here...

Although the Astros did exactly that for several years, they tanked on purpose after depleting their roster, also a long long time ago the Astros used to be like the Angels with being a few players short of making the playoffs & kept holding onto their players until they hit rock bottom & then they finally started selling, followed by the tanking & now their on top of the AL West for many years to come.

[floplag]

a week ago we were in the playoff hunt, ok technically still are but still, and you want to rebuild?  Why?  
If Upton stays, and i think he will, the OF is set, we have only a couple of holes to fill offensively at most, one of the best defensive SS in the game... why do you throw all that away now?  
To even talk rebuild means trading Trout, Simmons, and anyone else of value to make it make any sense. 

We could sign Moustakis, maybe keep BP for another year or go with someone else there, get some lockdown reliever types and we ARE in the post next year, i would bet money on that 

I cant see the logic at this point of tossing what progress we have made. 

[Stradling]

I am guessing it has to do with the mentality that while we would be in the playoff hunt, there is still 15-18 games separating us from first place.  Now I don't really agree with that, but just a hunch that is what some of the people are thinking.  

[Farmbuildingfan]

No one wants to rebuild more than I do, as  50 years of mostly farm negligence has tried my patience, but there is no possible trade that makes Trout expendable because no organization has the top seven prospects in all of baseball, which is the minimum I would want back for him.

The Angels are stuck because the only prospect value  they could get would involve trading the best young players. Most of their roster would get them very little, and certainly nothing to build a future around.

The Angels are suffering from the lack of wisdom of Arte and Dipoto, leaving patience as the wisest choice going forward.

I sure hope they can resign Upton, otherwise, they have just thrown away another pitching prospect for nothing.

my biggest concern is the health of the starting rotation next year.

It is possible we will not see Shoemaker, Meyer, Tropeano, or Ramirez for some time, and a setback for Richards and/or Scaggs would not shock me.

Most telling this year is a pitcher like Nolasco filling out a rotation spot for the entire season.

I do not want to see something similar next year.

 

 

 

 

[Erstad Grit]

Horrible idea.

Rotation comes back healthy. Keep Upton. Another 30-40 mil to spend. 

This team is easily a wild card team next year. 

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 hours ago, Scioscia4MVP said:

Although the Astros did exactly that for several years, they tanked on purpose after depleting their roster, also a long long time ago the Astros used to be like the Angels with being a few players short of making the playoffs & kept holding onto their players until they hit rock bottom & then they finally started selling, followed by the tanking & now their on top of the AL West for many years to come.

The Astros couldn't afford to spend big, so they had to draft players for what seems like an eternity. They were last place teams for so long it was embarrassing for them. They were a terrible team from 2006 until 2015. The finished more than 50 games below .500, 3 years in a row in order to get those draft picks.

I for one just can't afford to wait that long. I doubt Trout will want play for a team that is doing what the Tigers and White Sox are doing. I doubt the Angels can afford to do that and keep their fan base intact.

KC went through a 30 year rebuild and were very good for two years and now they will have to start over again next season. The Astros will be good for a 2 or 3 more years until they can no longer afford their stars and will trade them off for prospects much like the A's seem to do a lot.

Also I think with a few good moves by Eppler this off season and our pitchers finally going through an entire season without major injures to key players, we will give Houston a run for their money without breaking up the core of this team.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

44 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Horrible idea.

Rotation comes back healthy. Keep Upton. Another 30-40 mil to spend. 

This team is easily a wild card team next year.

I am going for the division next year, the wild card is a crap shoot. We need to win the Division and I think we can with a little from Eppler this off season.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

3 hours ago, Scioscia4MVP said:

Although the Astros did exactly that for several years, they tanked on purpose after depleting their roster, also a long long time ago the Astros used to be like the Angels with being a few players short of making the playoffs & kept holding onto their players until they hit rock bottom & then they finally started selling, followed by the tanking & now their on top of the AL West for many years to come.

I know they did! How many of you would sit around and watch that?........ Not me!

[ettin]

No.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

10 hours ago, GrittyVeterans said:

It's hard to do a full rebuild when Trout and Simmons are worth like 16 WAR on their own. Unless you want to trade them, which I don't

You never get equal value back when you deal players like that. Did Atlanta, when they traded Simmons here? Our biggest issue right now is Pujols' escalating contract in the face of his rapidly declining play.

[greginpsca]

What if the Angels traded Trout and got back 2 top young starting pitchers, a cf'er, a 3rd & 2nd baseman.  By all accounts, a massive haul. Then had Upton stay. And now had money available to sign one of Arrietta, Chatwood, or Otani. Would your opinion change? Just wondering.

[arch stanton]

Or what if they could get a time machine so they could move forward in time just enough to see what pitch is coming next? Would that be cool?