2018 fixable fast

[VariousCrap]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

But the point is taking on bad contracts did not turn them around.

 

It didn't hurt the team.  Whether on the field or reputation.

[Angelsjunky]

That Upton contract looks suspiciously familiar. Hmm...who else had a 4 year, $80-something million contract that the Angels took on?

[VariousCrap]

41 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

That Upton contract looks suspiciously familiar. Hmm...who else had a 4 year, $80-something million contract that the Angels took on?

 

Upton will opt out of his contract this off-season.  It will be a new contract.  Also, he is leaps and bounds better than Too Blessed To Be Stressed was.  He currently has a 4.2 WAR for the season according to baseball reference.

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Let's see. . .the Dodgers won 86 games in 2011 and were squarely at the center of the pennant race when they made this big deal in 2012.

Uh, no this did not turn them around quickly.  They were already a strong winning team simply piling on additional expensive talent to supplement their chances.

Facts matter.  But I am the dumbass right?

Just want to be on the same page.  You believe being squarely in the hunt for the wild card means your s good team?

[stormngt]

1 hour ago, VariousCrap said:

 

If you remember last off-season, we saw the opposite for the most part.

Who last year that was a top tier free agent?

[Cdaniel]

What about Jay Bruce?  Left handed power bat without a draft pick  attached since he was just traded to the Indians.  Probably wouldnt cost as much as other FA's.

[VariousCrap]

20 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Who last year that was a top tier free agent?

 

Cespedes (sp?) was trying to get a big, long contract and he didn't.

[VariousCrap]

16 minutes ago, Cdaniel said:

What about Jay Bruce?  Left handed power bat without a draft pick  attached since he was just traded to the Indians.  Probably wouldnt cost as much as other FA's.

 

Jay Bruce, like JD Martinez, won't cost a draft pick because they were traded.  Either one would be acceptable to me for LF.

[VariousCrap]

I have to say though, if the goal is surrounding Trout with talent before he could go to another team via FA, losing a draft pick for a player like Upton and Moustakas shouldn't be a concern at all.

If you are focusing for after Trout, then draft picks are worth saving the next few years. 

[stormngt]

16 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

Cespedes (sp?) was trying to get a big, long contract and he didn't.

Cespedes opted out of a big time contract he signed the previous year.  Or am I mistaken?

[stormngt]

21 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

Cespedes (sp?) was trying to get a big, long contract and he didn't.

I stand corrected.  For some reason I thought Cespedes signed a long term contract with the Mets in 2016 and then chose his opt out option for better deal.

[ukyah]

you can't just add manny machado with the waive of a hand in some future projection.

which amazing prospect do the angels have available that can't be matched or bettered by multiple other teams.

if the angels are going to be legitimate contenders next year, then it's going to have to be with good health and some cagey signings by eppler that really pay off. oh yeah, pujols has to hit 6th or 7th or fugetaboutit.

[UndertheHalo]

The Moose really makes me nervous.  I'd rather wait until 2019 then give him a contract. 

Jay Bruce would have been a good get.  The Mets gave him away basically.  I'd be fine bringing him on in the offseason.  Probably won't be too horrible a contract relatively and won't cost a draft pick. 

I thought we should have signed Upton 2 years ago.  I guess it depends on the deal, but I'd rather have him by an extremely large margin then Moustakas. 

[Swiss Angel Fan]

I think we should go for a 2b in the offseason and let Cowart take 3b and see how it plays out... Then use Valbuena as a super utility infielder for 3b, 2b and 1b if he stops being a black hole in the lineup. I wouldn't be against signing a free agent like Moustakas, but it would be wiser to wait until for the much better 2019 free agent class imo.

For second base, Joe Panik would be an interesting option, still young and has good upside.

I didn't see anybody mention Ian Kinsler. Despite being 35, he is still the best defensive 2b in baseball according to Fangraphs. His 2017 BABIP is also about 60 points lower than in his last 2 seasons (.259 vs .314 and .325). Could be aging or just bad luck...  

Finally, do you think the Diamondbacks would be open to trading Ketel Marte, even though they just aquired him? He put up some very good numbers in AAA this season and would be a superior defender at 2b.

.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Whether we focus on 2B or 3B, it all comes down to whos available. People say moustakas has warts, faie enough...but we cant necessarily be choosy. Meaning even if we wantes him, he may not want here. 

I have no preference really...coawart can play either. My problem is im not sure he can hit enough to play either. Everyone is saying hes improved, and most on here follow cllser than i do, so fair enough. But after the last few seasons, im super cautious about any guy who isnt proven. Meaning i also include the returning pitchers. 

So i agree @Swiss Angel Fan, od prefer to wait until 2019. I know rhats not popular with most on here (and im as frustrated as anyone), but until we know oir pitching is at least stable (doesnt have to be amazing, just healthy with plan B and C), and we know who cron is, if calhoun just had a bad year, etc etc, id prefer we only sign someone or trade foe someone whos too good to pass up on (with no ideas who that might be).

 

[Stradling]

12 hours ago, stormngt said:

Of course!  The comment on the injuries was meant to be a joke.  I do think the salary estimate I gave would be acuurate.  You cant get a an impact hiyter ir front line starter for less than 20 million a year and probably less than 10 years on the contract.

Neither guy will get more than a six year deal. Who was the last guy who got ten years?  Staton?  Before that Albert?  Has anyone else gotten ten years?  Arod?  

[Dtwncbad]

21 hours ago, eaterfan said:

Moustakas won't sign at a fair market price and it will keep us from signing players when this team is actually ready to compete.

I'm not really for taking in bad contracts. But that includes long term FA signings. I'm against forfeiting slot money. If we're going to take on a bad contact I'd rather take a chance on a marginal prospect than giving up slot money.

There is a Moustakas available every year. No need to lock this particular one up right now.

Moustakas certainly will sign for a fair market price.  He will be a free agent. The contract will define fair market price.

Secondly, the team is ready to compete.  They are almost in a playoff spot now.  They have a couple of obvious holes to be filled, and that is how teams should use free agency. . .to fill a couple of specific holes.

I am not in love with Moustakas specifically. . .I am fine scooting Cowart over there and signing a different impact bat if that is how it plays out.

But the Angels have passed on major free agent signings the last couple of years evidently committed to staying under the luxury tax.  Going through these seasons with glaring holes has clearly hurt their wins and losses.  But at least we have known why those holes are there.

This offseason they will have plenty of room to spend to fill those holes.

There is literally no reason to not use that money to fill those holes.

I don't think anyone is advocating reckless 8 year contracts for 32 year olds, so there is no point arguing against that straw man.

If the Angels do not somewhat aggressively spend money to directly address their holes in an offseason when they have tons of room to spend, it will have an effect on my interest in the team.

This is supposed to be a first tier, big market team with ownershio interrsted in winning.

If you don't try to win when you have money to spend, are arguably 2-3 players away from being really good, and you have Trout in his prime. .  Then I question the entire notion that this is a first tier, big marketbteam witj an owner that wants to win.

I believe they will sign at least two high profile players.  Any other outcome would be a shock (and disappointment) to me.

[totdprods]

I like @Scotty@AW's idea of nabbing bad contract vets to use as stopgaps. Upton is the only one that gives me pause, because he has an opt-out. We'd need to make sure (of course) that we'd acquire him after his opt-out came and went. 4 years for $88m isn't that bad these days, and he'd a better bet than Moustakas to provide some steady production. I don't think it blocks any prospects either - Calhoun (or even Upton) would both be tradeable, and even with Hermosillo close, Upton would bring more offense than him. 

I also fully expect Eppler to dip into some of our prospects in the next calendar year in a trade. His apprehension of tying up players in long-term, big money deals seems to be part of his plan and I think he'd rather spend some prospect currency. He just hasn't had the prospect depth to really pull that off yet. 

Free agency is going to be interesting the next couple years - the big, bad contracts have really started to tail off. There aren't even more than a handful of bad contracts currently on the books these days. 

[stormngt]

Move Cowart to 3b

Give Cron a full time role at 1b

Find the best 2b you can find

Get a Moto bat for of. 

I am beginning to like the idea of Kinsler and Upton or Martinez 

[Dtwncbad]

37 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I like @Scotty@AW's idea of nabbing bad contract vets to use as stopgaps. Upton is the only one that gives me pause, because he has an opt-out. We'd need to make sure (of course) that we'd acquire him after his opt-out came and went. 4 years for $88m isn't that bad these days, and he'd a better bet than Moustakas to provide some steady production. I don't think it blocks any prospects either - Calhoun (or even Upton) would both be tradeable, and even with Hermosillo close, Upton would bring more offense than him. 

I also fully expect Eppler to dip into some of our prospects in the next calendar year in a trade. His apprehension of tying up players in long-term, big money deals seems to be part of his plan and I think he'd rather spend some prospect currency. He just hasn't had the prospect depth to really pull that off yet. 

Free agency is going to be interesting the next couple years - the big, bad contracts have really started to tail off. There aren't even more than a handful of bad contracts currently on the books these days. 

How is Upton a "bad contract"??

If it was a bad contract he wouldn't opt out (to keep the most money) and go for more money.

This guy so going to opt out and get a better contract.  I will bet on it.

The Angels should be delighted to have that contract as it is.  My guess is he opts out and the Angels may be among the teams offering more than what he has.

[stevestevens]

On 8/8/2017 at 5:51 PM, Dtwncbad said:

 

Tanaka, Richards, Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker.

 

 

 

Any 2018 plans should not include Richards. Of course you keep him on the team but you cannot count on him.  IMO he has to earn his 2018 spot and show he is healthy once the season starts.  

[totdprods]

45 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

How is Upton a "bad contract"??

If it was a bad contract he wouldn't opt out (to keep the most money) and go for more money.

This guy so going to opt out and get a better contract.  I will bet on it.

The Angels should be delighted to have that contract as it is.  My guess is he opts out and the Angels may be among the teams offering more than what he has.

It isn't - I said it wasn't a bad contract these days. His original 6/$120 or whatever was a little hard to take because of the length.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

11 minutes ago, stevestevens said:

Any 2018 plans should not include Richards. Of course you keep him on the team but you cannot count on him.  IMO he has to earn his 2018 spot and show he is healthy once the season starts.  

Exactly, we shouldn't count on any arm (no matter who it is)! Until they come back and are successful then you have an opportunity of trading a strength if they work out and comeback healthy!

[Angels#1Fan]

29 minutes ago, stevestevens said:

Any 2018 plans should not include Richards. Of course you keep him on the team but you cannot count on him.  IMO he has to earn his 2018 spot and show he is healthy once the season starts.  

Completely agree.

He's damaged goods until proven otherwise!

[Dtwncbad]

24 minutes ago, stevestevens said:

Any 2018 plans should not include Richards. Of course you keep him on the team but you cannot count on him.  IMO he has to earn his 2018 spot and show he is healthy once the season starts.  

We don't disagree.  I think it is a disaster waiting to happen if the Angels count on Richards to lead the staff.  There is no guy they can count into lead the staff.  They need one.  Granted literally anyone they bring in also has an injury risk.  Every pitcher does.  But considering what the Angels have gone through they should be working very hard this offseason to have somebody on this roster with a fair shot at 200 innings and an ERA under 3.80 to lead the staff, with Richards potential contribution all upside.

Even if fully healthy I bet Richards would still not top 160 innings.

I kind if like Tanaka because he doesn't need crazy velocity to be successful and I think his one terrible month this year is so grossly affecting his overall numbers that he may have a little less negotiating power.

I would take Cueto in a heartbeat too.  He is a bull.