2018 fixable fast

[ettin]

24 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

I'm saying it's a longer throw from third than second. It doesn't hurt having a strong arm at 2B but not as important than at 3B. Cowart is better at 3B than at 2B.

This may be the case but I think the difference is marginal overall. Also we are not taking into consideration what the trade and free agent markets look like from Eppler's point of view. Any options that may be available might not be satisfactory to Billy and/or too expensive to acquire so putting Kaleb at 2B might be providing the best value for the team in the immediate future.

For example it was rumored that Eppler looked last season at many different 2B options around the League. It may be that the asking prices on these players were so high that Billy said "Hey let's move Cowart over to 2B and for the value he brings it will be better than trying to acquire an outside piece at a high price" because (hypothetically) the 3B options to acquire were more palatable (such as spending cash only on someone like Moustakas for instance).

What I am trying to say in a roundabout manner is that these decisions are not just based on ability at a particular position or positions. They are also based on resource allocation (payroll vs. prospects to acquire a player) and available or projected options at any particular position (i.e. is Kaleb better for the Angels at 2B than anyone we can acquire not just from a production point of view but from a value point of view?). It is not just about where any of us thinks he belongs but also about what helps the team as a whole in terms of production, resources, and replacement/acquisition upgrades/downgrades.

[floplag]

I think where Cowart cna/will play will be more dictated by who/what else we might have to play the other spot. 
He can pay either, if we get a guy that really cant it makes it easy.  
I was and still am hoping maybe for a Gordon possibility and slide him over to 3B, but i have zero expectation of anything at all actually happening unless the team forces the front office hand by going on a run and getting in the race without help... even then its doubtful. 

[ettin]

1 hour ago, eaterfan said:

The goal is to have above average players at each position no matter how they get it done; hitting, running, or defense. The goal is to have the highest run differential. Moving him to 3rd base makes it easier for him to be above average defensively compared to second base.

Andrelton Simmons in 2015 and 2016 put up 4+ WAR in each season and was below 100 OPS+. In other words he was below average offensively. Are you suggesting the goal should be to replace him with an average offensive SS even if he posts a significantly lower WAR?

I think you're giving Cowart's defense too much credit at 3B eater. The differential in his actual defense between 3B and 2B isn't that large in my opinion (and to be clear I believe he is a good defender at both positions). Keeping him at either position is a positive from a defensive point of view.

Rather than repeat what I said in response to Ace-of-Diamonds I'll just point you to it.

Run differential is important but it is not the end all, be all of decision making. By placing Cowart at 2B it may be the best way to improve run differential based on trade and free agent markets for available players. For instance a Dee Gordon/Kaleb Cowart duo probably hurts our run differential more than a Kaleb Cowart/Mike Moustakas duo.

Defense is important but it may not be as important as run production.

[YouthofToday]

First step should be to DFA Pujols if he shows the same "quality" PAs he has this year during ST 2018. 

[tdawg87]

Moose and Hosmer are both Boras clients. 

Just saying.

[ten ocho recon scout]

If upton opts out (this winter?), do you make an attempt to sign him?

[totdprods]

8 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

If upton opts out (this winter?), do you make an attempt to sign him?

I would. I feel we have the payroll space now and even in his lesser seasons he'd be a good addition to the everyday line-up. He's been quietly very productive since last ASB.

[Docwaukee]

If upton opts out, I don't think there would be any draft pick or intl money penalties.  

[eaterfan]

2 hours ago, ettin said:

I think you're giving Cowart's defense too much credit at 3B eater. The differential in his actual defense between 3B and 2B isn't that large in my opinion (and to be clear I believe he is a good defender at both positions). Keeping him at either position is a positive from a defensive point of view.

Rather than repeat what I said in response to Ace-of-Diamonds I'll just point you to it.

Run differential is important but it is not the end all, be all of decision making. By placing Cowart at 2B it may be the best way to improve run differential based on trade and free agent markets for available players. For instance a Dee Gordon/Kaleb Cowart duo probably hurts our run differential more than a Kaleb Cowart/Mike Moustakas duo.

Defense is important but it may not be as important as run production.

I think a Cowart/Gordon duo will probably help our run differential more.

 

Run differential is far far far more important than simply run production. I'm not going to argue that defense is as important as offense, but the run differential is. You can argue it's too hard to measure defense to get an accurate run differential. I'll disagree, especially now that front offices have more tools to measure player movement and ball speed. In this I mean being 20% better than league average as a hitter is better than being 20% better than league average as a fielder. But saving 8 runs on defense is better than creating 7 runs on offense. But to create 7 runs on offense you might only have to be 5% better than average but 30% better than league average on defense to save 8 runs.

But I agree that cost ($ and talent) should be more of a factor in determining where Cowart plays than just "he is a 3rd baseman". He is an average 2nd base defender IMO and his bat will play better there. I was just agreeing with Ace that he was moved to 2nd because he was blocked. They weren't looking at FA at the end of the season or even 2 years out when they started playing him there. If they find a good 3B for a good price then keep Cowart at second. But if they find two equally good options for equal price at 2B and 3B respectively then they are better off taking Cowart's above average defense at 3rd even though his hitting will be further from average.

[Dave Saltzer]

20 minutes ago, eaterfan said:

I think a Cowart/Gordon duo will probably help our run differential more.

 

Run differential is far far far more important than simply run production. I'm not going to argue that defense is as important as offense, but the run differential is. You can argue it's too hard to measure defense to get an accurate run differential. I'll disagree, especially now that front offices have more tools to measure player movement and ball speed. In this I mean being 20% better than league average as a hitter is better than being 20% better than league average as a fielder. But saving 8 runs on defense is better than creating 7 runs on offense. But to create 7 runs on offense you might only have to be 5% better than average but 30% better than league average on defense to save 8 runs.

But I agree that cost ($ and talent) should be more of a factor in determining where Cowart plays than just "he is a 3rd baseman". He is an average 2nd base defender IMO and his bat will play better there. I was just agreeing with Ace that he was moved to 2nd because he was blocked. They weren't looking at FA at the end of the season or even 2 years out when they started playing him there. If they find a good 3B for a good price then keep Cowart at second. But if they find two equally good options for equal price at 2B and 3B respectively then they are better off taking Cowart's above average defense at 3rd even though his hitting will be further from average.

This is where I am right now. We can address more offense in the Of, which should be easier to acquire, especially until our OF develops. Maybe we should go after one of the top tiered pitchers, such as Darvish, but Gordon leading off, getting rid of Escobar's bad defense at 3B, makes a lot of sense right now. 

[stormngt]

8 hours ago, Dtwncbad said:

Seriously?  The Dodgers are not good BECAUSE they took a couple of bad contracts.  Look at that team with an honest eye and tell me their greatness is from taking bad contracts.

Your a real dumbass.  If you read carefully I said they turned it around quickly because they took on bad contracts. They didn't trade the farm.  The spent a lot of money and they turned around the disaster the McCourt created.   That was five F'n years ago!  It has nothing to do with the current team that dominating!

[stormngt]

7 hours ago, VariousCrap said:

No trades for bad contracts.  It is time for Arte to open his wallet for FA again.

These are the three musts IMO:

Mike Moustakas for 3B
JD Martinez for LF (if Upton opts out of his Tigers contract, he is another possibility)
Lance Lynn for SP

 

3 players.  Would cost at least 60 million dollars and probably each with a ten year contract.

And once we sign them  Martinez hits Mendoza line Moose throws out his rotator cup and Lance gets Tommy John surgery.

[VariousCrap]

Just now, stormngt said:

3 players.  Would cost at least 60 million dollars and probably each with a ten year contract.

And once we sign them  Martinez hits Mendoza line Moose throws out his rotator cup and Lance gets Tommy John surgery.

 

That is ridiculous.  Funny given the Angels history, but ridiculous.

 

[Inside Pitch]

3 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

If upton opts out (this winter?), do you make an attempt to sign him?

I'd much rather chase him than Moustakas...   

[VariousCrap]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

I'd much rather chase him than Moustakas...   

 

If you can't get both, I'd agree to get Upton as he is the higher WAR player, but I still want both.

 

[stormngt]

2 minutes ago, VariousCrap said:

 

That is ridiculous.  Funny given the Angels history, but ridiculous.

 

Of course!  The comment on the injuries was meant to be a joke.  I do think the salary estimate I gave would be acuurate.  You cant get a an impact hiyter ir front line starter for less than 20 million a year and probably less than 10 years on the contract.

[VariousCrap]

Just now, stormngt said:

Of course!  The comment on the injuries was meant to be a joke.  I do think the salary estimate I gave would be acuurate.  You cant get a an impact hiyter ir front line starter for less than 20 million a year and probably less than 10 years on the contract.

I don't think any of them will get close to 10 years.  They aren't those types of players.  They will all cost money, but if you want to finally surround Trout with impact hitters in 2018, this is the best way to do it.  As for Lynn, he isn't a must if the rotation is finally getting healthy.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Question. If you had to choose one, do we get a bat to hit behind trout? Or a plus on base guy to hit in front of him?

 

[stormngt]

1 minute ago, VariousCrap said:

I don't think any of them will get close to 10 years.  They aren't those types of players.  They will all cost money, but if you want to finally surround Trout with impact hitters in 2018, this is the best way to do it.  As for Lynn, he isn't a must if the rotation is finally getting healthy.

I could be wrong but it seems all the top tier free agents these days get ten+ years

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I'd much rather chase him than Moustakas...   

I would too. Ive been a quiet fan of his for awhile. Part of me worrys though if he's trying harder right now so he can opt out and make more, then go back to lesser production.

Just from what ive heard, he doesnt have the greatest rep, kind of lazy.

 

[Dtwncbad]

34 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Your a real dumbass.  If you read carefully I said they turned it around quickly because they took on bad contracts. They didn't trade the farm.  The spent a lot of money and they turned around the disaster the McCourt created.   That was five F'n years ago!  It has nothing to do with the current team that dominating!

Let's see. . .the Dodgers won 86 games in 2011 and were squarely at the center of the pennant race when they made this big deal in 2012.

Uh, no this did not turn them around quickly.  They were already a strong winning team simply piling on additional expensive talent to supplement their chances.

Facts matter.  But I am the dumbass right?

[VariousCrap]

12 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Let's see. . .the Dodgers won 86 games in 2011 and were squarely at the center of the pennant race when they made this big deal in 2012.

Uh, no this did not turn them around quickly.  They were already a strong winning team simply piling on additional expensive talent to supplement their chances.

Facts matter.  But I am the dumbass right?

Dodger fans were pretty pissed at the time because of the McCourts.  This deal was a way for the new ownership to show they meant business.  It worked.  Constantly in the playoffs and huge attendance numbers since then.

[VariousCrap]

33 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I could be wrong but it seems all the top tier free agents these days get ten+ years

 

If you remember last off-season, we saw the opposite for the most part.

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, VariousCrap said:

Dodger fans were pretty pissed at the time because of the McCourts.  This deal was a way for the new ownership to show they meant business.  It worked.  Constantly in the playoffs and huge attendance numbers since then.

Yes everyone knows they had lots of money to spend and they wanted to prove to fans they would spend and be that big market team instead of the cheap McCourt.

But the point is taking on bad contracts did not turn them around.

It was about showing the baseball fans what kind of ownership they were compared to past ownership. . .willing to go big to get skittle better to improve their (already in) playoff run.

[VariousCrap]

42 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Question. If you had to choose one, do we get a bat to hit behind trout? Or a plus on base guy to hit in front of him?

 

 

I think we need more power hitters.  I like Trout in the #2 spot in the line-up.

I'd like to see something like this next year:

Simmons
Trout
Moustakas
Upton or Martinez
Calhoun
Pujols
Cron/Valbuena
Maldonado
Cowart