What's the goal?

[Dtwncbad]

When I was a kid, wins and losses every day mattered so much and the hope of reaching the postseason was all that mattered.

Now almost 40 years later is does the team, on paper and in my heart, have a puncher's  chance at teaching the world series.

I have no interest in sneaking into a wildcard IF I think it will be a quick exit from simply not being  good enough.

I think this roster is simply not good enough.

The natural next step is I want a better roster in years to come.

The last thing I want is winning 6 straight out of the AS break making it "wrong" to be sellers at the deadline.

I would rather lose 95 games and have a better roster and farm going forward than win 83 games and have an early exit.

 

[mtangelsfan]

I really do not believe that draft order is that big of a deal.  

Now if the argument is to strengthen the farm by trading some players like Escobar, Maybin, and some of the pen......................

I would be with that.

[totdprods]

Just keep improving. 
They don't have to be buyers or sellers, it's not that black and white. 

I don't think their players with expiring contracts are going to bring enough back for them to torpedo the whole season and sell them off. 
Still think they may buy someone under-the-radar who fills a long-term need. 

I just don't want them to spend any prospect currency on a bunch of mediocre rentals. If they are gonna trade someone, make an impact.

[zenmaster]

The goal is no more arms falling off. 

[Angel Oracle]

Just play the best ball they can, hold on to key players for the future, continue to scout solidly in Latin America and here, and find strategic acquisitions in the off-season for the future too.

[Ohtaniland]

The goal is to make the Angels 2017 season funeral as respectable as possible. In lieu of venting please prepare yourselves for the pitchers and catchers that are due to report next February. 

[ettin]

33 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Just keep improving. 
They don't have to be buyers or sellers, it's not that black and white. 

I don't think their players with expiring contracts are going to bring enough back for them to torpedo the whole season and sell them off. 
Still think they may buy someone under-the-radar who fills a long-term need. 

I just don't want them to spend any prospect currency on a bunch of mediocre rentals. If they are gonna trade someone, make an impact.

This ^^^^

[Jeff Fletcher]

It's not going to make much difference either way.

"Selling" Maybin or Norris isn't going to get you a piece that will dramatically change the long-term condition of the team. 

[Docwaukee]

I think selling at this deadline could be important.  Not franchise make or break dramatic, but we have a nice collection of expiring contracts that we obtained for little to no outlay and we could get a decent return for them.  

A true 'breakdown' of this team if you don't trade Trout and no one is trading Trout.  Because what do you have that would net you substantial value outside of him?  Calhoun is having a down year so you'd be selling low.  Simmons is amazing and would likely get a substantial haul, but he's cheap.  Both of those guys are signed through 2020 and aren't likely to decline any time soon.  

All of your starting pitchers worth anything are hurt so there is no sense moving them.  JC Ramirez is a guy who could actually increase his value if you keep him and he's basically free by baseball standards.  

The one guy that probably has a ton of value on the pitching side is Cam.  But I think you'd have to get a sweet deal in order to justify moving him.  

At the end of the day, prospects are still just prospects.   

If I am trying to predict what the front office sees, I would guess that they are looking at a team that has had substantial injury and were able to weather the storm of losing the best player in baseball while playing .500 ball.  If I am them, I would still be a little unclear as to how good (or bad) this team is and whether it's even realistic to think we will recover from all the injuries.  

I would also see that because of parity in the AL, we aren't likely going to fall too far out of the WC race from a GB standpoint even though we might have 10 teams in front of us.  Which creates major perception issues if you decide to sell.  Most would disagree that a couple years of 95 loss seasons is better than hovering around .500 and being 3-4 games back of the second wild card.  

Finally, if Arte is going to continue to fill seats because the team 'has a chance' then he's going to continue to fill seats.  

So we will move forward as we have.  Being marginally competitive.  Hoping that we get fully healthy.  Snagging guys like Ramirez and Bridwell, and Parker and Norris and Maybin to keep the ship afloat.  

The purpose of having a capable farm system isn't just to have those players contribute at the major league level.  Yes, that's the most fun part, but as important are a couple of other things.  One, that they provide production at the major league level CHEAPLY.  Giving you flexibility to use payroll to fill other spots.  Two, that you have replacements for injuries and spots where a FA doesn't work out ie depth.  

 

[mrwicked]

we already know what is going to happen - same thing that happens every year.

we are clearly not a championship caliber team. and that's fine, not every can be.

they won't be buyers, but just before they decide to be sellers... they will go on a little hot streak to the end the season. so they will stand pat.

which means the org will feel like they have a better team than they actually do, and the first 80% of the season was a fluke. so they will make no changes whatsoever, and profess that if we just performed like that for the entire season we would have been fine.

and the hot streak also means they will get a worse draft pick. 

the only thing worse than losing, is landing in the dead zone of not good enough for playoffs, but not bad enough for high end talent via draft.

rinse and repeat.

will be nice to see trout back though.

[Ohtaniland]

1 minute ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It's not going to make much difference either way.

"Selling" Maybin or Norris isn't going to get you a piece that will dramatically change the long-term condition of the team. 

@Jeff Fletcher

I think the team is still in a major transitional stage which will require time and patience. They need some good drafts and some smart trades. That coupled with the health of our MASH unit pitching staff will be key. It may take five seasons to get there but they have to trust the process. The downside could be if Trout doesn't hang around long enough to see it through. This franchise has seen its share of failed signings and injuries so some luck is well overdue. 

[JustATroutFan]

You never know, man. As far as I know, the Angels can still win the World Series if they make it to the postseason as a wild card. The thing about baseball is that it is so unpredictable. There is no guarantees that if the Angels make the postseason as a wild card that they will lose because all it takes is a team that gets hot at the right time to win it all. It would be a miracles but not impossible for the Angels to win it all this year.

[totdprods]

It would be great if they could sell, but, I just don't see how. As Fletcher said, only Norris and Maybin are really going to bring back anything worthy. I could see them dealing Norris simply because they have Bedrosian back now to fill his role. Maybin would be tough...

Nolasco and Chavez would have been ideal, but with our rotation's health, it'd be very short-sighted to deal away their durable arms just for filler prospects. We need them to chew up some innings so guys like Meyer, Bridwell, Ramirez, etc. don't torch their arms this year unnecessarily. 

Revere and Espinosa - they have specific skills that may still come in handy for contenders, and I imagine that's a reason we've seen both get as much playing time as possible, especially Espinosa, in an attempt to get their trade value boosted. 

Escobar, Petit, Hernandez - could be dealt, but not sure if they'll get enough of a return to justify it. Team may prefer just hanging onto them in case we Forrest Gump our way into the WC.

[Docwaukee]

Just now, Jeff Fletcher said:

It's not going to make much difference either way.

"Selling" Maybin or Norris isn't going to get you a piece that will dramatically change the long-term condition of the team. 

no offense Jeff, but I don't really agree with that statement.  I feel like that's what got us in trouble with Dipoto where he sold off a bunch of spare parts crippling the depth of our system.  It's true that any player received in return for either of those guys isn't likely to be a superstar or even a star, but there is a cascade effect.  They could be the two additional pieces that get a deal done for a front line starter.  Or either one of them could turn out to be a league avg player at 2b or LF for very cheap allowing us to spend in other areas.  

I contend that 'keeping' Maybin or Norris is very unlikely to dramatically change the outcome of this season.  Why not see if you can parlay their value into another Jaime Barria, Luis Castillo, Eduardo Paredes, Troy Montgomery, Grayson Long, Leon Rivas, or Alex Meyer?  

Finding ways to turn expiring assets into future assets only increases your organizational currency.  

[Angel Oracle]

If no one can fetch much at all back in trade, might as well hold on to the key players with expiring contracts.   Just don't use key future assets to buy rentals.

[totdprods]

10 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

no offense Jeff, but I don't really agree with that statement.  I feel like that's what got us in trouble with Dipoto where he sold off a bunch of spare parts crippling the depth of our system.  It's true that any player received in return for either of those guys isn't likely to be a superstar or even a star, but there is a cascade effect.  They could be the two additional pieces that get a deal done for a front line starter.  Or either one of them could turn out to be a league avg player at 2b or LF for very cheap allowing us to spend in other areas.  

I contend that 'keeping' Maybin or Norris is very unlikely to dramatically change the outcome of this season.  Why not see if you can parlay their value into another Jaime Barria, Luis Castillo, Eduardo Paredes, Troy Montgomery, Grayson Long, Leon Rivas, or Alex Meyer?  

Finding ways to turn expiring assets into future assets only increases your organizational currency.  

Eppler could deal off expiring contracts for these fringe type prospects, yes, but...he's also shown that he doesn't need to trade anyone to find those types of players. He's been plucking them off waivers with a high rate of success. So, he can keep doing that and maintain the big league team in the event they luck into the playoffs. 

All I'm saying is he doesn't need to trade those guys for the sake of a trade. I don't disagree that he couldn't fill out our farm by doing so, but those prospects may not be worth cutting the team off at the MLB level when they still feel they have a shot.

[JustATroutFan]

If you look at the Cubs this year and last year m, they are on pace to miss the postseason this year after winning the World Series last year. In baseball, you can go from top of the world to being a non playoff team the next year. Baseball is so much different than per say, the NBA. You expect the same teams to comepete for the NBA Finals year in and year out. MLB? No. And as individual performances goes, have you always notice that NBA superstars always put up great months after great months but an MLB superstar can have multiple bad months during a season? MLB is way more unpredictable than NBA. If I were the Angels, I would go for it because Trout is the best player in the league. Plus, they are just three games back of the second wild cases with Trout returning. Roll the dice.

[CanadianHalo]

If we make a trade I want it to be for the future.

For example the Simmons trade. If we're trading some prospects let's get someone who is under control, under 30 and actually fills a need.

I'd be very open to listening on some of the bullpen guys especially Bedrosian

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, CanadianHalo said:

If we make a trade I want it to be for the future.

For example the Simmons trade. If we're trading some prospects let's get someone who is under control, under 30 and actually fills a need.

I'd be very open to listening on some of the bullpen guys especially Bedrosian

If we could get something insane like McMahon and Tapia for Bedrosian I'd be all over it. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

Middle of the road .500 record so we can show enough so people and large corporations keep spending their disposable income on season seats and sponsorships. Not good enough to make a deep run unless everything falls in place and we catch lightning in bottle again like 02'. But, not terrible enough so we can secure a top 5 pick consistently to reload the talent and a better chance of rebuilding the system quickly. Have a large amount of smoke blown up our butts about the overall aspects of the roster to make even the giddiest fly boy happy. Having a pretty good offense but not elite while tossing pennys on the dollar at the bench! While praying the likes of slappy utility MIF's can round out the roster and can get the damn bunt down or move quickly enough to get from first to third in a decent amount of time to beat the throw. Hoping, wishing and praying on ulnar collateral ligaments of days gone by....

[Ohtaniland]

23 minutes ago, JustATroutFan said:

If you look at the Cubs this year and last year m, they are on pace to miss the postseason this year after winning the World Series last year. In baseball, you can go from top of the world to being a non playoff team the next year. Baseball is so much different than per say, the NBA. You expect the same teams to comepete for the NBA Finals year in and year out. MLB? No. And as individual performances goes, have you always notice that NBA superstars always put up great months after great months but an MLB superstar can have multiple bad months during a season? MLB is way more unpredictable than NBA. If I were the Angels, I would go for it because Trout is the best player in the league. Plus, they are just three games back of the second wild cases with Trout returning. Roll the dice.

2003

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

It's not going to make much difference either way.

"Selling" Maybin or Norris isn't going to get you a piece that will dramatically change the long-term condition of the team. 

I don't expect a "dramatic" change.  I'm looking for a positive contribution.  All the pieces matter.  I will gladly trade some wins this season for an extra contributing player on the roster in the future.

I can find my retirement in one dramatic transaction. . .

You can get a few bodies with upside to put into the system hoping one turns into a regular player.

I'll trade a few wins in 2017 to add a few winning numbers to my lottery. . .

[Inside Pitch]

Whats the goal?????

The fact that you know, the old saying goes, "play good enough, until last out until also something good happens for you"

Dummies!

[AngelStew43]

Escobar may return a top prospect or two from a team that needs a 3B with his skill set, that is the ability to get on base.  Norris, Hernandez, and Petit will not be back next season, so the idea should be to get the best return possible.  Same goes for Morin and Cron, since neither of them seem to be in the long term plans of the current regime.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

If no one can fetch much at all back in trade, might as well hold on to the key players with expiring contracts.   Just don't use key future assets to buy rentals.

Meh. I see it as "draft pick comp vs trade prospect value". I dont think maybon or norris get us a first round draft comp pick, but at least trading them for an average prospect is more valuable.