Angels renew stadium talks with Anaheim after striking out in Tustin

[kevinb]

3 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

If Arte gets an extension with the same terms and conditions he's a very lucky man. The deal was drafted by Disney and Disney gets everything they ask for.

Exactly which Disney has a track record and has a high economic foot print with jobs, income, sales tax and brings in more revenue for the city of Anaheim than the Angels could even dream of. Which is understandable because Disney is open 365 days a year and Angels stadium is open 81 days a year. Sorry for rambling this is what I do I am very passionate about it. 

[yk9001]

Does Arte sh*tting on the city a decade ago over the name change still have any effect?  I don't know.  It sounds like there are people here in the know.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, yk9001 said:

Does Arte sh*tting on the city a decade ago over the name change still have any effect?  I don't know.  It sounds like there are people here in the know.

I am not sure it has an effect in reality but a perceived effect. I am sure they aren't thrilled about it but it really doesn't affect the cities annual income. It is something that they can say in the media to get the residents of Anaheim behind them over Arte which could be beneficial long term for the city and could hurt Arte in the media. 

[Stradling]

I get that you are passionate about it and that is awesome.  You have compared it to what Irvine is doing, that isn't realistic in my mind.  Irvine is a more sought after area because it is considered safer and better quality of life for families.  I am not asking this next question to be argumentative, but if the land is so valuable and sought after then why have we had empty lots accross the street that would be perfect places to build what you are recommending (high rise apartment/condos) for doing on ten years?  I prefer Anaheim because I grew up there and I feel safe there, but a lot of people don't anymore.  As far as the land the stadium sits on, obviously Arte has some say in it or it must be part of the lease, because they had to lower the scope of the plan by the Chinese investor because Arte said no, or something like that.  Educate me on that if I am wrong.  

[Ohtaniland]

4 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Exactly which Disney has a track record and has a high economic foot print with jobs, income, sales tax and brings in more revenue for the city of Anaheim than the Angels could even dream of. Which is understandable because Disney is open 365 days a year and Angels stadium is open 81 days a year. Sorry for rambling this is what I do I am very passionate about it. 

Anaheim's biggest revenue source is the hotel tax that Disneyland brings in with tourism 365 days a year. 

[Stradling]

10 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

If Arte gets an extension with the same terms and conditions he's a very lucky man. The deal was drafted by Disney and Disney gets everything they ask for.

Claude, does the lease change if he doesn't opt out?  Doesn't this deal go until 2029?  Does anyone really think Arte will own this team at that point?  I sure don't.  

[mtangelsfan]

If big centers are the big thing why is the Grove so bad?  Why are malls going bad?

What about that big one not too far from Angels stadium on State College?  Why is that so empty?

Its not a bad idea to sell the land off, my question would be if you had any buyers other than Disney who would just use it for parking?  Not a lot of revenue there.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I get that you are passionate about it and that is awesome.  You have compared it to what Irvine is doing, that isn't realistic in my mind.  Irvine is a more sought after area because it is considered safer and better quality of life for families.  I am not asking this next question to be argumentative, but if the land is so valuable and sought after then why have we had empty lots accross the street that would be perfect places to build what you are recommending (high rise apartment/condos) for doing on ten years?  I prefer Anaheim because I grew up there and I feel safe there, but a lot of people don't anymore.  As far as the land the stadium sits on, obviously Arte has some say in it or it must be part of the lease, because they had to lower the scope of the plan by the Chinese investor because Arte said no, or something like that.  Educate me on that if I am wrong.  

So in my understanding of the city of Anaheim from talking with people who have worked with them in the past and in our business dealings with them is that the city of Anaheim are pain in the asses to deal with. Going years back to when my father would deal with them they have been just super difficult to deal with, with getting paper worked filed etc etc. I grew up in South Orange County so I didn't grow up around Anaheim and I think the perceived safety issue in Anaheim compared to that of Southern OC like Irvine is just that perceived. The problem is everyone wants to live in South OC right? But not everyone can afford it so a lot of people recently have been moving to Santa Ana and also moving out of OC and still going to work in OC. They are moving to Riverside counties or just north OC and traveling for work. The way I see it is if you can build something similar to what is going on in Costa Mesa right now with the high rises and townhouses etc in Anaheim I don't see why people wouldn't flock to it. Especially lower income which really is 500k townhouse lower income? But you can change the identity of the city with that kind of stuff. You still get the Area and zip code that people are buying. You are living in OC and that has a higher price tag than say a North San Diego or a Riverside just to be able to say OC. 

As for the buildings around it, why things haven't been built is everyone is kind of waiting for the first shoe to drop. Whether the city of Anaheim caves into Artes demands, what is happening with the lease. Are the Angels staying or going. I think until we know the answers to those questions we are kind of in a standstill. I mean if I owned some of that land I would be holding off as well. Say the Angels stay ok so what does that look like, are they building a new stadium are funds going to be given out like Arte would be getting in a deal, so are developers waiting for a handout as well to build something. If Arte is leaving what are they going to do with the land. Is Disney coming in? Is there going to be just a mass land sale to developers what does the city see for that site. Where can I get mine back. Are we going to over saturate or under saturate the market. I really think the first shoe to drop is going to be whats going on with Arte and the Angels once they know whats going to be going on there for the next 10 years then people will start building like crazy. Interest rates are low, occupancy is nation wide highs through out Orange County, like I said in a previous post the average occupancy in OC is around 95-98% if not higher. Thats not just certain cities thats everywhere. We own properties through out Orange County and up in Ventura Camarillo areas and we are on waiting lists at 98-100% constantly. Sorry to drag on and on about this

[kevinb]

10 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

If big centers are the big thing why is the Grove so bad?  Why are malls going bad?

What about that big one not too far from Angels stadium on State College?  Why is that so empty?

Its not a bad idea to sell the land off, my question would be if you had any buyers other than Disney who would just use it for parking?  Not a lot of revenue there.

Malls are going bad because the mall itself is paying for upkeep and paying for air-conditioning through out and land costs. I don't know the retail market but from the friends I have who are GMs of big company stores. It seems across the board that stores are down 10 percent or more in store fronts. Online shopping has done a huge number on these store fronts. A mix used retail, dining, night life with condos, townhouses and apartments is where its at. You have a built in audience. See how the Irvine Company has worked the Irvine Spectrum and their apartments. Spectrum is packed every day, I worked right down the street and used to live in those apartments, and they are just adding more and more apartments by the day. When I lived there they were first being built or finishing their first phase of around 2000 units. Then they built another 2000 behind it and right now they are building another or it is already done I haven't gone over there in a little bit another 2000 units plus. If you build in an audience like they have done whats the reason to leave if you have all the shopping, restaurants and night life. You keep all that revenue in house. 

[Stradling]

How sad would it be if the Angels moved and the stadium is replaced by a parking structure for Disney.  That would be completely shitty. 

[kevinb]

Just now, Stradling said:

How sad would it be if the Angels moved and the stadium is replaced by a parking structure for Disney.  That would be completely shitty. 

I doubt that land would be a parking structure. I think disney is building more parking structures around Disneyland. How it was said to me was that if Disney bought that land it would be another park. Where you would make Anaheim more and more like Orlando and it would be an Epcot something something theme park kind of thing. Which Disney would rake it in. 

[mtangelsfan]

Used to live 10 minutes from the Spectrum.  Really nice.  Good setup.  Just don't know if people are wanting to go to Anaheim like they go to Irvine.

Also, most of the folks with the money to spend at a place like that live south of Anaheim, much closer to the spectrum.

[kevinb]

I am really curious to see how the LA Rams do what they are doing in LA. I believe they are doing mix used stuff and the stadium and night life etc around it. I think if the Rams can do something that will be a center in LA that, thats something you can see the Angels do in Anaheim. But again I believe Kroenke is doing a lot of that stuff with out the city having to pay out a bunch. I am curious to see where the Dodgers go from the Ravine I don't believe they are longed for that area. 

[mtangelsfan]

I still think a real deal can be done that would be beneficial to both.

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

Used to live 10 minutes from the Spectrum.  Really nice.  Good setup.  Just don't know if people are wanting to go to Anaheim like they go to Irvine.

Also, most of the folks with the money to spend at a place like that live south of Anaheim, much closer to the spectrum.

Agreed but like I said before MT if you build it they will come. I mean think about Irvine for a second. I am not sure if you lived here when they build the beginning of the Spectrum but it was just a movie theatre and then it had Fox Sports. There were office buildings around but people weren't just meeting up at the Spectrum like they are now. If you built a similar situation like the Spectrum in Anaheim rent would be cheaper, not by much, and home prices are generally cheaper than Irvine and OC is dying for a high rise city kind of place to live and to be able to walk around. I live in San Clemente right now for example and I am dreading the suburb kind of area I live in. I would love to still live in OC but also have that kind of city feel. I am telling you right now watch out for Santa Ana in the next 5 to 10 years. They are doing a lot of things in that area. 

[Ohtaniland]

23 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude, does the lease change if he doesn't opt out?  Doesn't this deal go until 2029?  Does anyone really think Arte will own this team at that point?  I sure don't.  

If Arte does not opt out the lease is automatically extended to year 2029 with Arte still on the hook to fix the stadium at his expense. The terms will remain the same with a deferred new timeline to fix the stadium. I agree with you that Arte will probably sell the team. Most likely before he attempts to fix the stadium and re-sign Trout. Arte is going to cash his chips. I had a conversation once with Ed Roski (part owner of the LA Kings) and he told me that Arte had the sweetest agreement in professional sports. Arte knows that.

[mtangelsfan]

I did, I lived in Lake Forest for 10 years.  

Like I said though, that place in Orange has high rises, apartments and is dead.  There is no guarantee and I don't know that you find the investors who want to take that risk..

This is all speculation though.  Who knows what will happen.

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I still think a real deal can be done that would be beneficial to both.

I agree but the deal has to be greatly beneficial to Anaheim because whatever mayor or city councilman signs off on it. If it is scene as a deal that is a hand out to Arte like this $1 deal that was supposedly on the table and Arte wanted even more than that. Than you will see outrage. Hell I live in San Clemente and I will be outraged at Arte and the Angels for completely screwing over a city. The old adage goes "Pigs get fat but Hogs get slaughtered" and it seemed from the deal that got nixed earlier was that Arte was trying to be a hog. 

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, Stradling said:

How sad would it be if the Angels moved and the stadium is replaced by a parking structure for Disney.  That would be completely shitty. 

Yeah but the city could benefit from the parking revenue.

[gotbeer]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

My point is if you are going to bend over for one you should make concessions for the other.  

Heres my over simplified solution.  Arte pays for the renovation, he also continues to maintain the stadium and grounds.  They split parking for all Angel games 50/50.  Arte gets to develop the land around the stadium.  Anaheim and Arte build a parking structure.  

 

Again Strad.  Disney gets concessions from the city.  But the city isn't putting any money into building Disney's new parking structure or lands. 

That's the big difference between Disney and Arte.  And IMO, that's the problem with your solution.  You want to give Arte the land for free, and you want the city to fund the development/parking lot. 

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

I agree but the deal has to be greatly beneficial to Anaheim because whatever mayor or city councilman signs off on it. If it is scene as a deal that is a hand out to Arte like this $1 deal that was supposedly on the table and Arte wanted even more than that. Than you will see outrage. Hell I live in San Clemente and I will be outraged at Arte and the Angels for completely screwing over a city. The old adage goes "Pigs get fat but Hogs get slaughtered" and it seemed from the deal that got nixed earlier was that Arte was trying to be a hog. 

Why would you be outraged at Arte for agreeing to a deal?  Are you outraged at Albert for saying yes?  Blame the city if they offer that to Arte and be upset at Arte for offering that to Albert, pretty simple.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, mtangelsfan said:

I did, I lived in Lake Forest for 10 years.  

Like I said though, that place in Orange has high rises, apartments and is dead.  There is no guarantee and I don't know that you find the investors who want to take that risk..

This is all speculation though.  Who knows what will happen.

Ya definitely I just see it as the first shoe has to drop. Once we know whats happening with that huge piece of land the rest of the deals and building should and probably will commence. As of 2015 it looks like Anaheim has over 300k people living in just the city. If they build something mix used you should see that number rise and you should see the tables start getting more and more people there. I mean check out the area right down the street from the "Pond" where Tilted Kilt Chillis the movie theatre and Lazy dog, that area used to be dead and now its always packed over there. So it can happen. You just need to build it. Right next to the stadium there really isn't any place that has good parking, JT Schmidts is a pain and the Catch while its a decent location right on the corner, you can't really get there if you are just thinking of going there for food. I remember driving up on a non game day and having no clue where we were supposed to park and how to get to that location. 

[gotbeer]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Yeah but the city could benefit from the parking revenue.

 

People overestimate how much revenue the parking is.  Going back to those leaked documents.  There is no line item for parking revenue.  So I'm assuming it's under other revenue.  That other category totals $12.4 million for 2009.  Which I believe they were selling out, and I don't think parking prices have changed.  Even if they went up 50%, that would be $18.9 million max in parking revenue.  And even if you split it 50/50, that's only $9.95 million. 

IMO, I don't think it's worth a considerable tax payer liability to fund something that will bring in so little.

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Why would you be outraged at Arte for agreeing to a deal?  Are you outraged at Albert for saying yes?  Blame the city if they offer that to Arte and be upset at Arte for offering that to Albert, pretty simple.  

Sorry if it sounded like that. I meant I would be outraged at both the city and Arte. I mean hell I would love to get a deal like that. The only reason he would get a deal like that would be he would threaten to leave the city of Anaheim and it would be a emotional reaction type of deal. In the end I would more just be pissed off at the city of Anaheim for making the deal that would cost themselves all a job and the city millions of dollars. Good for Arte if he can get that deal but I guess we will see. I hope the city of Anaheim has some brains still and doesn't get totally screwed. Other wise really the entire city council will be out of a job. 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, gotbeer said:

 

People overestimate how much revenue the parking is.  Going back to those leaked documents.  There is no line item for parking revenue.  So I'm assuming it's under other revenue.  That other category totals $12.4 million for 2009.  Which I believe they were selling out, and I don't think parking prices have changed.  Even if they went up 50%, that would be $18.9 million max in parking revenue.  And even if you split it 50/50, that's only $9.95 million. 

IMO, I don't think it's worth a considerable tax payer liability to fund something that will bring in so little.

Completely agree. Whether the Angels stay or not something new will be built there. Something that will bring and keep people spending money.