Angels renew stadium talks with Anaheim after striking out in Tustin

[gotbeer]

2 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Sorry if it sounded like that. I meant I would be outraged at both the city and Arte. I mean hell I would love to get a deal like that. The only reason he would get a deal like that would be he would threaten to leave the city of Anaheim and it would be a emotional reaction type of deal. In the end I would more just be pissed off at the city of Anaheim for making the deal that would cost themselves all a job and the city millions of dollars. Good for Arte if he can get that deal but I guess we will see. I hope the city of Anaheim has some brains still and doesn't get totally screwed. Other wise really the entire city council will be out of a job. 

 

I go back to what Balmer said.  If you guys don't know, since I posted it in the basketball forum, he is looking at moving from Staples Center.  This is a quote from him.

Quote

In 2015, Ballmer told the Los Angeles Times, "We're third guy in, we have third choice in dates. If you are a good businessman, you don't come to the end of your lease and say, 'I have no options, landlord, please take me to the woodshed and beat me.' We'll have options."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17156916/owner-steve-ballmer-exploring-sites-new-los-angeles-clippers-arena

The big difference is, Balmer is looking to build his own stadium.  Not looking at the cities doing it, so that he's in charge.  And he wants to build the area up like how LA Live is built up. 

Just my opinion.  But Arte seems to be reaching the point of being taken to the woodshed.  What really are his other options?  Irvine is out.  City of Industry is IMO out, because City of Industry hates residents so they keep control, so a mixed use project doesn't seem likely.  He'd have to build just a stadium, or a stadium + mall.  Maybe Irwindale at one of the big holes in the ground might work.  Ontario or further inland.  But problem is both those areas are really moving away from the Angels fanbase in the OC. 

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, gotbeer said:

 

I go back to what Balmer said.  If you guys don't know, since I posted it in the basketball forum, he is looking at moving from Staples Center.  This is a quote from him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17156916/owner-steve-ballmer-exploring-sites-new-los-angeles-clippers-arena

The big difference is, Balmer is looking to build his own stadium.  Not looking at the cities doing it, so that he's in charge.  And he wants to build the area up like how LA Live is built up. 

Just my opinion.  But Arte seems to be reaching the point of being taken to the woodshed.  What really are his other options?  Irvine is out.  City of Industry is IMO out, because City of Industry hates residents so they keep control, so a mixed use project doesn't seem likely.  He'd have to build just a stadium, or a stadium + mall.  Maybe Irwindale at one of the big holes in the ground might work.  Ontario or further inland.  But problem is both those areas are really moving away from the Angels fanbase in the OC. 

I wonder if there is any room for Ballmer at the new Rams site? Hell if Arte puts the Angels for sale Could Ballmer buy the Angels and have the Angels and Clippers either in Anaheim or LA ... Not sure how much room is at the Rams location. Just a thought. 

[Ohtaniland]

27 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

 

People overestimate how much revenue the parking is.  Going back to those leaked documents.  There is no line item for parking revenue.  So I'm assuming it's under other revenue.  That other category totals $12.4 million for 2009.  Which I believe they were selling out, and I don't think parking prices have changed.  Even if they went up 50%, that would be $18.9 million max in parking revenue.  And even if you split it 50/50, that's only $9.95 million. 

IMO, I don't think it's worth a considerable tax payer liability to fund something that will bring in so little.

The city gets almost nothing from parking revenue. Arte keeps every dime up to a certain threshold. That threshold is usually met at the end of the season. With no playoffs the revenue the city gets is very minimal. 

I just don't understand why people are so gung ho to give Arte an even better deal. I say sell the land to a developer with a plan that benefits all parties including the residents. 

[gotbeer]

15 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I wonder if there is any room for Ballmer at the new Rams site? Hell if Arte puts the Angels for sale Could Ballmer buy the Angels and have the Angels and Clippers either in Anaheim or LA ... Not sure how much room is at the Rams location. Just a thought. 

I've thought clippers would be a perfect fit for Anaheim.  But by the sounds of it, looks like he is looking at the west side.  My guess, judging by his speak, is Carson.  Since they were going for a football team also.  They have the land, which would fit into the development side that Balmer is looking for. 

I wouldn't rule out Anaheim.  But he would then have to share with Samueli.  And Henry does have a relationship with the city, so I don't know if they would cut him out. 

Looking at Forbes, Balmer is #26 at $23.5 billion.  For comparison, Kroenke is worth $7.7 billion, Samueli $2.6 billion, Moreno at $1.8 billion.  So Balmer can make whatever happen wherever he wants to go.

[gotbeer]

1 minute ago, CALZONE said:

The city gets almost nothing from parking revenue. Arte keeps every dime up to a certain threshold. That threshold is usually met at the end of the season. With no playoffs the revenue the city gets is very minimal. 

I just don't understand why people are so gung ho to give Arte an even better deal. I say sell the land to a developer with a plan that benefits all parties including the residents. 

I was actually responding more towards if the new deal was 50/50 on the revenue but the city would also have to kick in money to make things happen.  Even at 50%, it's not enough to account for the $ they are asked to kick in.

[Blarg]

This thread is why nothing can get settled for either a new or upgraded stadium.

[kevinb]

6 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

I've thought clippers would be a perfect fit for Anaheim.  But by the sounds of it, looks like he is looking at the west side.  My guess, judging by his speak, is Carson.  Since they were going for a football team also.  They have the land, which would fit into the development side that Balmer is looking for. 

I wouldn't rule out Anaheim.  But he would then have to share with Samueli.  And Henry does have a relationship with the city, so I don't know if they would cut him out. 

Looking at Forbes, Balmer is #26 at $23.5 billion.  For comparison, Kroenke is worth $7.7 billion, Samueli $2.6 billion, Moreno at $1.8 billion.  So Balmer can make whatever happen wherever he wants to go.

Lets just have Balmer buy the Ducks and Angels and keep them all in Anaheim and we win because dudes loaded and wants to win. My thought though is that Balmer bought the Clippers because they are in LA and I don't see him moving them to Anaheim which would be awesome. Seeing as similar to the Angels there is no way the Clippers over take the Lakers/Dodgers for supremacy in the OC/LA area. 

[Ohtaniland]

11 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

I've thought clippers would be a perfect fit for Anaheim.  But by the sounds of it, looks like he is looking at the west side.  My guess, judging by his speak, is Carson.  Since they were going for a football team also.  They have the land, which would fit into the development side that Balmer is looking for. 

I wouldn't rule out Anaheim.  But he would then have to share with Samueli.  And Henry does have a relationship with the city, so I don't know if they would cut him out. 

Looking at Forbes, Balmer is #26 at $23.5 billion.  For comparison, Kroenke is worth $7.7 billion, Samueli $2.6 billion, Moreno at $1.8 billion.  So Balmer can make whatever happen wherever he wants to go.

Lol that my brother owns the Anaheimclippers.com domain name. Not that it's worth anything or ever will be. 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

1 hour ago, Kevinb said:

Agreed but like I said before MT if you build it they will come. I mean think about Irvine for a second. I am not sure if you lived here when they build the beginning of the Spectrum but it was just a movie theatre and then it had Fox Sports. There were office buildings around but people weren't just meeting up at the Spectrum like they are now. If you built a similar situation like the Spectrum in Anaheim rent would be cheaper, not by much, and home prices are generally cheaper than Irvine and OC is dying for a high rise city kind of place to live and to be able to walk around. I live in San Clemente right now for example and I am dreading the suburb kind of area I live in. I would love to still live in OC but also have that kind of city feel. I am telling you right now watch out for Santa Ana in the next 5 to 10 years. They are doing a lot of things in that area. 

They will come initially but long term is the bigger issue that every new development faces.  Irvine is one of the biggest safe cities in America with a low crime rate and great schools and people feel safer dropping their kids off at the Spectrum than they would in Anaheim.  As far as the big city feel that's exactly what I don't want and I'd wager a lot of people in OC feel the same way considering what the growth in South OC has looked like.  Personally I want nothing to do with an area like LA and much prefer living in a housing track like I do now.  I understand that plenty of people prefer the big city feel, like living where they can walk to everything and so on but I don't want to deal with crap parking, loud neighbors and the list goes on.     

[Stradling]

54 minutes ago, gotbeer said:

 

I go back to what Balmer said.  If you guys don't know, since I posted it in the basketball forum, he is looking at moving from Staples Center.  This is a quote from him.

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/17156916/owner-steve-ballmer-exploring-sites-new-los-angeles-clippers-arena

The big difference is, Balmer is looking to build his own stadium.  Not looking at the cities doing it, so that he's in charge.  And he wants to build the area up like how LA Live is built up. 

Just my opinion.  But Arte seems to be reaching the point of being taken to the woodshed.  What really are his other options?  Irvine is out.  City of Industry is IMO out, because City of Industry hates residents so they keep control, so a mixed use project doesn't seem likely.  He'd have to build just a stadium, or a stadium + mall.  Maybe Irwindale at one of the big holes in the ground might work.  Ontario or further inland.  But problem is both those areas are really moving away from the Angels fanbase in the OC. 

Arte has a good deal now so he can't get taken to the woodshed right now, he just opts back into his contract.  Then see what happens in 2029.  He's obligated to spend $150 million on the stadium, he could just pay that when he sells the team. 

[mtangelsfan]

25 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

The city gets almost nothing from parking revenue. Arte keeps every dime up to a certain threshold. That threshold is usually met at the end of the season. With no playoffs the revenue the city gets is very minimal. 

I just don't understand why people are so gung ho to give Arte an even better deal. I say sell the land to a developer with a plan that benefits all parties including the residents. 

Easy to say for a guy that isn't even a fan of the team.

[Stradling]

Claude I would still like to see your compromise. 

[kevinb]

11 minutes ago, Catwhoshatinthehat said:

They will come initially but long term is the bigger issue that every new development faces.  Irvine is one of the biggest safe cities in America with a low crime rate and great schools and people feel safer dropping their kids off at the Spectrum than they would in Anaheim.  As far as the big city feel that's exactly what I don't want and I'd wager a lot of people in OC feel the same way considering what the growth in South OC has looked like.  Personally I want nothing to do with an area like LA and much prefer living in a housing track like I do now.  I understand that plenty of people prefer the big city feel, like living where they can walk to everything and so on but I don't want to deal with crap parking, loud neighbors and the list goes on.     

I understand that notion but most of OC if not all of OC is like that neighborhood safe cities. You don't find a lot of crime in OC whether its South or North of it. Not sure where you live but having an area thats similar to North Irvine/ Newport area where the high rise town home condo tracks are could be built in such a way people would feel safe there as well. Especially those neighborhoods. Not everyone wants to drive down to Irvine from north OC an area safe and nice in the heart of Anaheim could be beneficial to both the city and its residents. 

[mtangelsfan]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude I would still like to see your compromise. 

Claude doesn't want a compromise, he wants the Angels to move so he can feel better about losing his Expos.

[kevinb]

2 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude I would still like to see your compromise. 

If you owned the land what would your compromise be? Being a business person I am guessing not know what you do. But how much would you give up to just keep the Angels in Anaheim rather than having them another 30 miles away?  

[Ohtaniland]

10 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Claude doesn't want a compromise, he wants the Angels to move so he can feel better about losing his Expos.

If they move to Montreal.........

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

15 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

I understand that notion but most of OC if not all of OC is like that neighborhood safe cities. You don't find a lot of crime in OC whether its South or North of it. Not sure where you live but having an area thats similar to North Irvine/ Newport area where the high rise town home condo tracks are could be built in such a way people would feel safe there as well. Especially those neighborhoods. Not everyone wants to drive down to Irvine from north OC an area safe and nice in the heart of Anaheim could be beneficial to both the city and its residents. 

Overall the crime rate for OC is pretty good but the rate (violent, property and so on) in South OC whether you're talking Mission Viejo, Aliso, Irvine, etc. is quite a bit lower than that of Santa Ana and Anaheim.  You're counting on gentrification which could work but it's far from a guarantee.  They're building in Costa Mesa as you mentioned and we drove by one of the new condos yesterday that I swore they were advertising in the low 600's.  Maybe I misread the amount and I'm sure they're nice but there's no way I'd pay anything like that to live in a condo when you can find houses in that same price range.  Irvine and surrounding areas get away with places like that because of the number of professionals working in Irvine/Tustin and so on but also because it's a desirable area.  

I live in Huntington far enough from main street that I can avoid it completely.  Huntington is far from perfect and the overbuilding they've done has led to some of the problems.  Pacific City is fine in theory but traffic on Beach and PCH was bad enough before they put that in and it's not like you can hop off a freeway right there.  To Pacific City's credit they're trying to get away form the Main Street bar scene which has led to a lot of the problems they've had downtown.  

[Ohtaniland]

24 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Claude I would still like to see your compromise. 

Again without being redundant the Angels already have a sweetheart deal without the land. The compromise for the city would be to let the Angels continue to stay rent free and sell the land surrounding the stadium to be developed for everyone's enjoyment. No tax subsidy. 

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Again without being redundant the Angels already have a sweetheart deal without the land. The compromise for the city would be to let the Angels continue to stay rent free and sell the land surrounding the stadium to be developed for everyone's enjoyment. No tax subsidy. 

Claude that isn't a compromise that's honoring a contract, they don't have much choice in that manner.  Selling the land would be a breach of contract wouldn't it?  

[Ohtaniland]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Claude that isn't a compromise that's honoring a contract, they don't have much choice in that manner.  Selling the land would be a breach of contract wouldn't it?  

The city's obligation to Arte is to provide venue parking for the Angels games. They can still do that with parking structures, both overhead and underground. Disney would love to access that parking for employees and vendors on days that the stadium is idle.

[Stradling]

Yea I'd have no problem with sharing that lot.  Kinda dumb for Disney just for the simple fact you'd be paying your employees for 30 minutes a day to park and ride both ways.  

[Aaronkv]

Doesn't Disney already bus employees from the Angel Stadium lot? Even on game days.

 

Disney already released plans on building another large 6,800 space parking structure to be ready when Star Wars land opens. I'm sure that will make the need of using Angel Stadium parking for employees go away.

[Ohtaniland]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Yea I'd have no problem with sharing that lot.  Kinda dumb for Disney just for the simple fact you'd be paying your employees for 30 minutes a day to park and ride both ways.  

Even the Ducks need more parking so a parking structure with a shuttle service can be beneficial. Disney is still starving for parking as they're preparing to open the third gate which is basically another park. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

3 hours ago, gotbeer said:

The big difference is, Balmer is looking to build his own stadium.  Not looking at the cities doing it, so that he's in charge.  And he wants to build the area up like how LA Live is built up. 

Steve Balmer is worth $27.5B. He could build a new arena and barely notice it. I would hurt him about as much as it would hurt me to buy a used car. I doubt Arte could afford to build a new stadium on his own. There is wealth and there is super wealth.

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Ace_Shoemaker said:

Steve Balmer is worth $27.5B. He could build a new arena and barely notice it. I would hurt him about as much as it would hurt me to buy a used car. I doubt Arte could afford to build a new stadium on his own. There is wealth and there is super wealth.

Yep, but rich guys are rich for a reason, their money works for them.