Angels renew stadium talks with Anaheim after striking out in Tustin

[mtangelsfan]

I think its funny that most of the folks who don't care if the Angels move are not locals or do not attend games.

Regardless, I think that there is enough money to go around.  The city can make good money and so can Arte or whoever he sells the team to next.

I also believe that if Arte wants to stay in Anaheim he needs to heavily invest in it.

[nate]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think its funny that most of the folks who don't care if the Angels move are not locals or do not attend games.

Regardless, I think that there is enough money to go around.  The city can make good money and so can Arte or whoever he sells the team to next.

I also believe that if Arte wants to stay in Anaheim he needs to heavily invest in it.

Like I said, it has been proven that this is not the case.  They never get back the money they invest.

When I lived in Arcadia I would have begged for them to move to somewhere in the SGV or just closer than Anaheim.

[gotbeer]

34 minutes ago, Stradling said:

@CALZONE I'm still waiting to hear what you think a realistic agreement would look like.  We know there will be concessions on both sides.  As someone who is knowledgable and passionate about this, what does an agreement look like?

I really think the agreement will come down to control of the parking lots.  I think Arte will get control of the stadium land for practically nothing.  But I think the city will want control back of the parking lots.  Because just for tax purposes, that's a lot of money they are leaving on the table.  Even if Arte develops the parking lot, which he's been saying since he took over the Angels and have never done, since he will have the master at zero, I don't know what the tax implications would be for the city. 

As seen by that Chinese firm wanting to build in that old industrial center.  They had to decrease their plan because they couldn't get access to the parking lot.  Small things like that affect the city.

 

[mtangelsfan]

Wouldn't that depend on what kind of deal was made nate?  

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think its funny that most of the folks who don't care if the Angels move are not locals or do not attend games.

Regardless, I think that there is enough money to go around.  The city can make good money and so can Arte or whoever he sells the team to next.

I also believe that if Arte wants to stay in Anaheim he needs to heavily invest in it.

Yep.  I hate to harp on the Disneyland thing but if they even paid 5% tax on ticket sales that would bring in over $100k a day in tax revenue. That certainly would help fund pensions or tons of other projects.  

[mtangelsfan]

I don't care about Disneyland one way or another.  I don't think you can compare them.  I do know that Anaheim is their bitch though.

[Stradling]

My point is if you are going to bend over for one you should make concessions for the other.  

Heres my over simplified solution.  Arte pays for the renovation, he also continues to maintain the stadium and grounds.  They split parking for all Angel games 50/50.  Arte gets to develop the land around the stadium.  Anaheim and Arte build a parking structure.  

[mtangelsfan]

I think Arte is going to need to put in a little more Strad.  In every other scenario I am against taxes going up and I would not be a fan if this cost Anaheim a single dime.  I want them to get more and Arte should be able to make that happen.

 

[eaterfan]

22 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think its funny that most of the folks who don't care if the Angels move are not locals or do not attend games.

Regardless, I think that there is enough money to go around.  The city can make good money and so can Arte or whoever he sells the team to next.

I also believe that if Arte wants to stay in Anaheim he needs to heavily invest in it.

How many of the people who want them to stay actually live in Anaheim and have to foot the bill?

[eaterfan]

22 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think its funny that most of the folks who don't care if the Angels move are not locals or do not attend games.

Regardless, I think that there is enough money to go around.  The city can make good money and so can Arte or whoever he sells the team to next.

I also believe that if Arte wants to stay in Anaheim he needs to heavily invest in it.

How many of the people who want them to stay actually live in Anaheim and have to foot the bill?

[mtangelsfan]

How are the people in Anaheim footing the bill right now?  Again, I wouldn't be for any deal that would cause one single resident of Anaheim to give anything up.

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, nate said:

@Stradling do you think it is smart for cities to fork out hundreds of millions of dollars to pay for stadiums?

It has been proven that the money never adds up and in the end the people get screwed.

Anaheim would be smart to tell Arte to go pound sand and pay for what he wants with his own money.

Agreed. Also I do not think the Angels and Arte will meet somewhere in the middle. I think if Anaheim was smart they would say this is our deal you can build your own stadium on this land. And the rest of it will be sold off or when your lease is up all the land will be sold off as a huge chunk or in parcels to the highest bidder and we will go from there. 

[kevinb]

8 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

How are the people in Anaheim footing the bill right now?  Again, I wouldn't be for any deal that would cause one single resident of Anaheim to give anything up.

They aren't but that's not what we're talking about. The new deals that owners of sports franchises are getting are the citizens of the cities are having the foot huge bills. It only matters if a new stadium deal is in place right now it's status quo and nothing is being done. Till there is a new deal in place and that's where the residents of Anaheim could pay a huge fee

[mtangelsfan]

But that isn't the kind of deal I am talking about.

[kevinb]

17 minutes ago, Stradling said:

My point is if you are going to bend over for one you should make concessions for the other.  

Heres my over simplified solution.  Arte pays for the renovation, he also continues to maintain the stadium and grounds.  They split parking for all Angel games 50/50.  Arte gets to develop the land around the stadium.  Anaheim and Arte build a parking structure.  

If Arte gets to develop the land tho he must pay for it. He doesn't get the land for free that's where I think the issue is. He can afford it. Multi family land in Orange County is going for around 5-6 million dollars an acre. If you think giving him I don't know how many acres it is for free or for the alleged $1 fee is acceptable to the city your out of your minutes crazy. That's a ton of revenue just right on the land sale alone let alone everything else 

[Stradling]

14 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

I think Arte is going to need to put in a little more Strad.  In every other scenario I am against taxes going up and I would not be a fan if this cost Anaheim a single dime.  I want them to get more and Arte should be able to make that happen.

 

They would get a renovated stadium at no cost to them.  They would get the tax revenue and the parking revenue.  It's a better deal for Anaheim than the deal Arte could opt out of.  

[mtangelsfan]

A renovated stadium really doesn't do anything for Anaheim unless it brings in more money which most studies show that it won't.

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

How are the people in Anaheim footing the bill right now?  Again, I wouldn't be for any deal that would cause one single resident of Anaheim to give anything up.

They aren't.  The stadium is bought and paid for.  The last renovation was paid for by Disney. 

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, Kevinb said:

Agreed. Also I do not think the Angels and Arte will meet somewhere in the middle. I think if Anaheim was smart they would say this is our deal you can build your own stadium on this land. And the rest of it will be sold off or when your lease is up all the land will be sold off as a huge chunk or in parcels to the highest bidder and we will go from there. 

That can't be how it goes down at least not for another 15 years.  Remember they have a contract now, and Arte is the one that has the opt out, not the other way around.  

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

They would get a renovated stadium at no cost to them.  They would get the tax revenue and the parking revenue.  It's a better deal for Anaheim than the deal Arte could opt out of.  

Honestly Strad no offense but you don't know what you are talking about with this real estate stuff. The better deal for the city of Anaheim which is a bunch of buffoons but thats neither here nor there is to sell the land and have a private entity develop the land. You would get real estate tax which is just over 1 percent on how ever many acres that is on 5 to 6 million dollars per acre. Plus development fees plus sales tax and land costs more labor jobs etc. Which helps the economy. Giving Arte the land for free so he can profit off of it is absolute insanity and what ever city official signs off on it will be out of the city council so fast it will make his head spin. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Kevinb said:

Honestly Strad no offense but you don't know what you are talking about with this real estate stuff. The better deal for the city of Anaheim which is a bunch of buffoons but thats neither here nor there is to sell the land and have a private entity develop the land. You would get real estate tax which is just over 1 percent on how ever many acres that is on 5 to 6 million dollars per acre. Plus development fees plus sales tax and land costs more labor jobs etc. Which helps the economy. Giving Arte the land for free so he can profit off of it is absolute insanity and what ever city official signs off on it will be out of the city council so fast it will make his head spin. 

Ok but they can't just sell the land, it's in the contract with the Angels.  So they can negotiate or wait for the lease to end in, what 2029?

[kevinb]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

That can't be how it goes down at least not for another 15 years.  Remember they have a contract now, and Arte is the one that has the opt out, not the other way around.  

Agreed but the city would be wise to wait it out. There is no point in signing a deal now when its not going to be beneficial. Look at all the revenue they would lose out on just to make someone who "doesn't" want to be here and who brings really nothing to the table except the Angels. Again I am going to restate this its really 81 games a year at Angels stadium the rest of the time it isn't producing any income what so ever. If Anaheim sells off the land and they develop it whether the Angels stadium or a Disney or just a metro center like LA Live was there you could produce a ton of money. But no way in the world should anyone just be given that land to develop. I don't care if its Disney Arte or Joe Shmoe thats too much money to take off the table. 

[kevinb]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok but they can't just sell the land, it's in the contract with the Angels.  So they can negotiate or wait for the lease to end in, what 2029?

The land thats not under control of Arte they can sell off if they haven't already. But making a deal just to make a deal isn't smart business for the city. There really is no other forms of making a huge profit as a city then selling a huge piece of land like this. I am not sure what else Anaheim owns in its city right now but lets say that for estimate purposes that land is 75 acres. Thats 5 or 6 million dollars per acre for multi family use. Just off the top at the low end of 5 million its 375 million dollars to the city than on top of that its a 1% or just over 1% tax yearly not to mention everything else on top of that. Now if you do it the other way and Anaheim forks over a piece of land for $1 thats worth a roughly 375 million dollar piece of land do you know what the 1% value of that is? About squat so not only do they lose out on a ton of money and yearly revenue they have basically been bent over and cost their residents money. Think of the kind of programs and infrastructure the city of Anaheim could do with that kind of added income yearly. That you just cost your city because you wanted to keep a sports franchise in your city. 

[Ohtaniland]

If Arte gets an extension with the same terms and conditions he's a very lucky man. The deal was drafted by Disney and Disney gets everything they ask for.

[kevinb]

Not to beat a dead horse but worst case scenario for the fans is you lose the Angels to say LA or whatever city. You build a triangle square, LA Live, Irvine Spectrum etc metro center in that area. You build town homes, luxury apartments, high rise condos, business center buildings etc. with a mix used built in to it. Where theres shopping, night life, restaurants, bars a music venue right there etc etc. And you say conservatively which I believe last I checked per acre you can build 50 plus apartment units on a per acre usage. So even if we go on the low side of 75 acres thats 3000 apartments condos and high rise to be sold off. You get the average price of about 500k if not more with all that infrastructure and you have just increased your revenue ten fold. yearly with land costs, property tax, sales tax etc etc. And now Anaheim is rolling in cash.