Twins acquire Santiago

[Angel Oracle]

Thanks for the explanation, IP.    I hope Meyer becomes a GB machine when he arrives here.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

22 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

My bad, I read reports that he was 20 years old.  Still though, why did the Angels have to include another Prospect?  Eppler essentially traded Hector Santiago for Ricky Nolasco.

Eppler traded Hector for Alex Meyer, they made him take Nolasco as part of the deal or they would not do the trade. Meyer was a top prospect as little as 2 years ago. He has had shoulder issues and he is a little wild but his upside is a top of the rotation type starter. Eppler called it a gamble with a high reward for a 1 1/2 of Santiago.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Santiago has thrown 87 pitches in his first 4 innings giving up 4 earned runs on 5 hits, 3 SO, and 2 HRs. Twins are losing 4-2 to Cleveland.

[The God of Runs]

3 minutes ago, Ace_Shoemaker said:

Santiago has thrown 87 pitches in his first 4 innings giving up 4 earned runs on 5 hits, 3 SO, and 2 HRs. Twins are losing 4-2 to Cleveland.

See? Santiago sucks. Eppler fleeced the Twins

[Docwaukee]

Hector is going to melt down while being with the Twins.  I think he liked socal and I doubt he wanted to get traded, especially to Minnesota.  

[Angelsfan1984]

Who the hell wants to go from So-Cal to Minnesota?

[ettin]

23 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Movement is best judged by seeing it come at you, not from behind the pitcher like most videos that are posted.  It's also worth noting that guys that throw hard can appear to be throwing flat baseballs - some of that has to do with the ball getting there very quickly.  I was always told to listen for the movement rather than look for it -- and by listen they meant the sound of the ball moving through the air, not hitting the mitt..  Guys with a lot of movement will throw loud pitches -- Kevin Brown threw the loudest pitches I've ever heard.   With Meyer, he's got a lot of sink to his FB, and over the course of his minor league career he's posted really strong HR/9 rates and solid GB ratios.  There is a strong correlation between FB velocity/GB rates and MLB success.   If you look at his minor league pull rates and the sort -- he's got a lot of things going for him.

Alan Busenitz hasnt been 20 in 5 years.   The dude is 25 and turns 26 this month.  

And it should be noted that Eppler's apparent goal is to create a groundball heavy pitching staff that pulls to the left side of the infield into Simmons. That is another reason the Meyer move isn't that surprising in terms of overall team strategy. It would not surprise me to see Eppler potentially grab a heavy groundball starter on a short term deal this offseason.

[Dick B Back]

5 innings, 99 pitches, that's Hector.

[Troll Daddy]

Nolasco gets his turn in a few hours

[DMVol]

1 hour ago, Ace_Shoemaker said:

Eppler traded Hector for Alex Meyer, they made him take Nolasco as part of the deal or they would not do the trade. Meyer was a top prospect as little as 2 years ago. He has had shoulder issues and he is a little wild but his upside is a top of the rotation type starter. Eppler called it a gamble with a high reward for a 1 1/2 of Santiago.

Just out of curiosity, can anybody name me a "top of the rotation type starter" who, at 26 years old, had a grand total of 6 big league innings....not trying to start anything, just would like a comp.....

[totdprods]

11 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Just out of curiosity, can anybody name me a "top of the rotation type starter" who, at 26 years old, had a grand total of 6 big league innings....not trying to start anything, just would like a comp.....

Shoe had zero until he was 27-28.

Not saying they're the exact same scenario, but pointing out that anything can happen. If Meyer can even be an average big-league starter or an above-average pen arm, the deal will have been alright. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Just out of curiosity, can anybody name me a "top of the rotation type starter" who, at 26 years old, had a grand total of 6 big league innings....not trying to start anything, just would like a comp.....

I know a HOFer that had less than 20 starts under his belt at age 26...    Warren Spahn.    And to the best of my knowledge he wasnt pitching at all the three years before he made it back to MLB.  RA Dickey is likely a poor example being a knuckleballer and all that -- but he was for a while a TOR type pitcher and he didn't get his first MLB start until age 28.  Thing is, are they really looking for Meyer to be a TOR type guy?  If he settles in as a solid 3 or 4 would anyone really complain?  Say a Jeff Fassero type?  I dont beleieve Fasero was a full time starter until his late 20s but he was a stalwart SP on the old RJ/Griffey era Mariners alongside Moyer.   Former Angel Geoff Zahn is another guy that didn't get started until older, but he managed to be a solid middle rotation guy for a bit...

[Docwaukee]

22 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Just out of curiosity, can anybody name me a "top of the rotation type starter" who, at 26 years old, had a grand total of 6 big league innings....not trying to start anything, just would like a comp.....

not sure about the criteria of not having starts, but there are plenty of guys who were actually pretty horrible early in their major league career and then just turned it on.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Dochalo said:

not sure about the criteria of not having starts, but there are plenty of guys who were actually pretty horrible early in their major league career and then just turned it on.  

That Sandy something dude..  he was alright.

[Angel Oracle]

Zahn was actually the ace in 1982, when he won 18 games.

[Angel Oracle]

2 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

That Sandy something dude..  he was alright.

Yep, didn't truly turn the corner until his age 26/27 seasons. 

[Blarg]

 

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

That Sandy something dude..  he was alright.

and Cliff, but not the guy from IHOP or Cheers.

[DMVol]

24 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I know a HOFer that had less than 20 starts under his belt at age 26...    Warren Spahn.    And to the best of my knowledge he wasnt pitching at all the three years before he made it back to MLB.  RA Dickey is likely a poor example being a knuckleballer and all that -- but he was for a while a TOR type pitcher and he didn't get his first MLB start until age 28.  Thing is, are they really looking for Meyer to be a TOR type guy?  If he settles in as a solid 3 or 4 would anyone really complain?  Say a Jeff Fassero type?  I dont beleieve Fasero was a full time starter until his late 20s but he was a stalwart SP on the old RJ/Griffey era Mariners alongside Moyer.   Former Angel Geoff Zahn is another guy that didn't get started until older, but he managed to be a solid middle rotation guy for a bit...

Spahn missed his age 22-24 seasons because of WWII....

 

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

That Sandy something dude..  he was alright.

Koufax broke into the bigs at 19 and pitched not very well until he was 24.  Age 24 he was mediocre and at 25 he was ok....he blew up at 26....But he had a ton of innings in the bigs before he was 26....Meyer has 6....the 6 innings is what concerns me....

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, ettin said:

And it should be noted that Eppler's apparent goal is to create a groundball heavy pitching staff that pulls to the left side of the infield into Simmons. That is another reason the Meyer move isn't that surprising in terms of overall team strategy. It would not surprise me to see Eppler potentially grab a heavy groundball starter on a short term deal this offseason.

This would make more sense if Escobar wasn't playing third.

[DMVol]

7 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Zahn was actually the ace in 1982, when he won 18 games.

Would love to have 2 or 3 Zahn's for next year....and he might be the best comp....he really didn't get going until he was in his late 20's....but "top of the rotation", probably not....

[ettin]

6 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

This would make more sense if Escobar wasn't playing third.

Well changing from Dipoto's philosophy to Eppler's philosophy doesn't happen overnight because they were a bit dissimilar in particular aspects. In particular it appeared, in my opinion, that Dipoto didn't mind fly ball pitchers in Anaheim (also in the AL West before Houston joined the A.L.) as long as they had good command and control.

Also I don't think Escobar is long for this team and we will see someone like Cowart or perhaps Martin Prado or some other well regarded defensive player at 3B at least part time if not full time.

[Dick B Back]

Satchel Paige age 41.

[Docwaukee]

Arrietta is an example of a guy that was terrible through age 26 and a chance of scenery made all the difference.  

[Inside Pitch]

35 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Spahn missed his age 22-24 seasons because of WWII....

Koufax broke into the bigs at 19 and pitched not very well until he was 24.  Age 24 he was mediocre and at 25 he was ok....he blew up at 26....But he had a ton of innings in the bigs before he was 26....Meyer has 6....the 6 innings is what concerns me....

I knew why he missed time -- I was just giving you a name.  I'm also well aware of Sandy Koufax's story.

Not trying to be argumentative, just seems you tried to find a new way to say something that's already been said -- basically that he's older and hasnt proven anything yet.  You're right of course.

I don't believe the Angels think they are getting a TOR guy.  I do however believe they were trying to get possible talent they could... someone they can dream on a little bit.  But since you asked the question... Will the trade be a failure unless he turns out to be a TOR guy IYO?  Honestly, if we get a Fassero out of it ..  I'd be happy.   

As twisted as this sounds, I'm way more curious to see how Blanton 2.0 goes and at the same time I want to see if going to Minnesota hurts Santiago. A part of me just wants to see the whole defense matters argument being played out before us.

 

 

[DMVol]

50 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I knew why he missed time -- I was just giving you a name.  I'm also well aware of Sandy Koufax's story.

Not trying to be argumentative, just seems you tried to find a new way to say something that's already been said -- basically that he's older and hasnt proven anything yet.  You're right of course.

I don't believe the Angels think they are getting a TOR guy.  I do however believe they were trying to get possible talent they could... someone they can dream on a little bit.  But since you asked the question... Will the trade be a failure unless he turns out to be a TOR guy IYO?  Honestly, if we get a Fassero out of it ..  I'd be happy.   

As twisted as this sounds, I'm way more curious to see how Blanton 2.0 goes and at the same time I want to see if going to Minnesota hurts Santiago. A part of me just wants to see the whole defense matters argument being played out before us.

 

 

The TOR reference came from Ace's post that I was responding to.....I am certainly not expecting that....I guess I did think the question about comparables hadn't been asked before (at least that I had seen)...And I thought the comps you and others brought up were interesting....I remember Zahn (since he pitched for the Angels) better than I do Fassero and if Meyers can be Zahn 2.0, I'd be thrilled.  And I think you could be right that Nolasco could upset the whole apple cart on this deal....He seemed to be in a groove with the Dodgers before he signed with the Twins....we'll see, starting tonite...