Are you on team sell or team compete and pray?

[beatlesrule]

I vote team sell and get younger.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Well, I don't want them to trade away EVERYONE.  Simmons and Calhoun are keepers in my opinion.  I know Calhoun is our best trade piece next to Trout, but I want them to be competitive at some point during Trout's current contract and Calhoun is a big part of that.  Trade guys like Street, Smith, Escobar, and Lincecum and Santiago if they give themselves any value as the deadline approaches.  

Then, give Cowart a shot at 3B, Marte at LF, and Bedrosian in a set-up or closer role for the rest of the season to see what they are made of.  Worst case scenario, none do well and the team gets a better draft pick.

[Chimi]

What are we tanking for? So we can get a really high draft pick and still draft poorly? We certainly won't be getting younger through trades because we have nothing to trade that's going to bring us young talent with upside.

[Oz27]

They need to sell and sell hard. Not Trout, possibly not even Calhoun (I'm 50/50 on that) but practically anything else which is moving.

[Quinlanforthewin]

21 minutes ago, Chimi said:

What are we tanking for? So we can get a really high draft pick and still draft poorly? We certainly won't be getting younger through trades because we have nothing to trade that's going to bring us young talent with upside.

No so we blow up the team and trade for prospects.  We haven't some pieces to trade that will at least get us something.  If we were stupid enough to give up our two top prospects for a SS who hits .220 then you have to think another team will give up at least a decent prospect for someone like Huston Street or Escobar or...ah shit we do have no one

[Second Base]

This isn't the NBA.  Even top overall picks aren't guaranteed stars.  Tanking is pointless. 

[Quinlanforthewin]

10 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

This isn't the NBA.  Even top overall picks aren't guaranteed stars.  Tanking is pointless. 

Not if it forces them to sell everyone.  It's a different type of tanking. 

[NachoPop]

8 minutes ago, Quinlanforthewin said:

No so we blow up the team and trade for prospects.  We haven't some pieces to trade that will at least get us something.  If we were stupid enough to give up our two top prospects for a SS who hits .220 then you have to think another team will give up at least a decent prospect for someone like Huston Street or Escobar or...ah shit we do have no one

Way to 'no sell' how good of a player Simmons actually is

[Quinlanforthewin]

10 minutes ago, Dipoto's Voodoo Doll said:

Way to 'no sell' how good of a player Simmons actually is

He's a great defensive player but I don't see any change in the team when he was on the DL versus now.  Petit at SS is a minor downgrade and probably an offensive upgrade.  I'm beating a dead horse but I just don't understand giving up so much for Rey Ordonez. 

[Stradling]

Was Rey Ordonez the best defensive player of his generation?  

[2112]

I'm all for tanking, but also I keep looking at Oakland, who has pretty much tanked over the years.  Didn't seem to help them.  

 

But out trying to rebuild a little would be a good idea.  

 

 

Too bad Pujols doesn't have value.  Although the Marlins were also pursuing him when he signed with us. Bet they would have figured out a way to trade him.

[Stradling]

I'm on team trade everyone not named Trout.  I don't believe in the term tank, because in my mind it means the players or the team is trying to lose.  Now if you trade and get prospects, and they play to win but fall short that in my mind is different. 

[JAHV76]

Considering the team is 15GB first place and their pitching issues they should rebuild for 2017 and beyond. I hope I'm wrong.

[Tank]

Guessed way wrong on the content of this thread.

[Quinlanforthewin]

48 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Was Rey Ordonez the best defensive player of his generation?  

No and neither is Simmons.  Giants fans would argue he's not even the best SS. 

[Tank]

21 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I'm on team trade everyone not named Trout.  I don't believe in the term tank

That hurt a little bit, strad.

[Quinlanforthewin]

33 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I'm on team trade everyone not named Trout.  I don't believe in the term tank, because in my mind it means the players or the team is trying to lose.  Now if you trade and get prospects, and they play to win but fall short that in my mind is different. 

Justify it however you want I think this thread just means are you rooting for wins or losses

[bloodbrother]

I'm team apathy. When I'm tuning in I want them to win but when they lose I don't care. I just want them to make good decisions moving forward. This season is gonna be ROUGH and next season doesn't look much better. A year from now a lot can change but just looking ahead it's not an encouraging picture. Richards will be out for next year once he ends up getting TJS....Heaney may miss next season as well with TJS but he at least has a better chance of recovery from his stem cell treatment than Richards does. Farm system is still completely empty and the upcoming FA class is probably one of the worst in years. Not sure where the significant improvements are going to be made from now until then.

Eppler has to be very, very savvy for the remainder of this season and throughout next season. More importantly, we have to hope that Arte doesn't go crazy again and pressure Eppler to make splashy and unwise FA signings from a weak class. The next biggest date for this season is the trade deadline and to see what Eppler can get back in return for the mediocre players they'll likely be shopping.

[Stradling]

16 minutes ago, Quinlanforthewin said:

Justify it however you want I think this thread just means are you rooting for wins or losses

If it's boiled down to that then I'm rooting for wins.  I watch basically every game and I won't sit there and root for them to lose.  

[beatlesrule]

I edited the thread to clear up confusion.  My Angels are in bad shape and I think even the most dedicated, nutswinging, rose colored glasses wearing fans can agree the present and future look bleak.  I think the only way to convince Trout to stay(or not force a trade) since our owner doesn't want to spend is to get as much younger talent and prospects as possible which means TRADE away pretty much anyone not named Trout to teams that are actually good and are in a position to make a post season run who can give us some building blocks

Obviously, guys like Pujols, Wilson and Weaver aren't going anywhere and I would hate to trade away Kole and Simmons and some young arms like Richards, Heaney and Skaggs but I think reality finally needs to be embraced here.  Since my dream of Arte selling the team and Scioscia being fired are about as realistic as Jessica Alba going on a date with me, the next best thing is for Eppler to act RIGHT NOW and make our farm at least look somewhat not horrible.  It will also give us a chance to see guys like Cowart, Ortega, Bandy etc actually play and see what they are made of.

[disarcina]

At this point and almost at every point prior to the trade deadline -- we're SELLERS not BUYERS.

goals:

1.) REDUCE PAYROLL

2.) Obtain some prospects but don't go overboard to the point that you don't achieve number one, above -- REDUCE PAYROLL..

3.) Reducing payroll and concentrating on this year's, the 2017 and 2018 amateur draft should help the Halos -- if they can't obtain some players to help us in the interim FINE but number one goal is to REDUCE PAYROLL. Wait - and then see what's there when you have some money to spend wisely. No more Hamiltons,, GMJ's, Vernon Wells, Appiers, and the list could be much longer.

 

[beatlesrule]

At least Appier helped the Angels win the World Series.

[wopphil]

Quote

Trade anyone not named Trout if the package is right - including Calhoun and Simmons for the right players.

Looking to next season, I'd non-tender Richards, trade Santiago, and trade Street if someone will take on his money. 

[jsnpritchett]

19 minutes ago, disarcina said:

At this point and almost at every point prior to the trade deadline -- we're SELLERS not BUYERS.

goals:

1.) REDUCE PAYROLL

2.) Obtain some prospects but don't go overboard to the point that you don't achieve number one, above -- REDUCE PAYROLL..

3.) Reducing payroll and concentrating on this year's, the 2017 and 2018 amateur draft should help the Halos -- if they can't obtain some players to help us in the interim FINE but number one goal is to REDUCE PAYROLL. Wait - and then see what's there when you have some money to spend wisely. No more Hamiltons,, GMJ's, Vernon Wells, Appiers, and the list could be much longer.

 

How can they even do that, though?  No one wants Weaver, and his contract is up, anyway.  Wilson is a free agent, and who knows when/if he'll pitch again.  They owe Street $10mil past this season, and don't really need him.  Maybe someone will take him, but a closer coming off of an injury with a 4+ ERA and more walks than strikeouts isn't going to bring much in return.

Hamilton is still owed a ton next year, but other than Pujols, Street, and Trout, no one else actually on the team is under contract for more than $8mil.  

Point being, there's really no way to reduce payroll for next year.

[tomsred]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

How can they even do that, though?  No one wants Weaver, and his contract is up, anyway.  Wilson is a free agent, and who knows when/if he'll pitch again.  They owe Street $10mil past this season, and don't really need him.  Maybe someone will take him, but a closer coming off of an injury with a 4+ ERA and more walks than strikeouts isn't going to bring much in return.

Hamilton is still owed a ton next year, but other than Pujols, Street, and Trout, no one else actually on the team is under contract for more than $8mil.  

Point being, there's really no way to reduce payroll for next year.

Someone will offer both Weaver and Wilson contracts next year (they may choose to retire on their own anyway), that's how bad the free agent class for pitchers is minus Strassburg.  There will be very few pitching options available on the market for the Angels next year, they are going to be a product pretty much of what they have in house.  We are basically cooked until 2018.