Are you on team sell or team compete and pray?

[Brent Maguire]

It's clear this team won't compete for the next year and a half assuming Richards/Heaney aren't healthy. I'd hold onto Trout, Calhoun and Simmons but I'd pretty much shop anybody else to at least see what kind of value you can get back. 2017-2018 could potentially be pretty tough years again but dealing with a few down seasons to get the necessary talent infused into the upper minors will do wonders for this team(potentially). 

The issue with selling, however, is you're not selling very attractive pieces. Escobar fetches you a borderline top 100 prospect probably. Santiago gets you a few decent prospects or one upside guy. Street might get you something nice if he has a good next month but he's been very bad this year. Smith/Salas probably get you some high risk A pitcher or a AAAA outfielder of sorts. Maybe you shop Shoemaker since his value has skyrocketed but surely some teams will be skeptical. It's almost worth considering seeing what he does the rest of the year and shopping him in the offseason. 

Eppler and the Angels are in a tough spot for sure. The upcoming free agent class is hot garbage, the farm system is hot garbage and the MLB roster is mediocre riddled with injuries to key guys. The team is currently 11 games under .500 so getting back to being competitive is going to require some ballsy moves in the next few years. 

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

It's clear this team won't compete for the next year and a half assuming Richards/Heaney aren't healthy. I'd hold onto Trout, Calhoun and Simmons but I'd pretty much shop anybody else to at least see what kind of value you can get back. 2017-2018 could potentially be pretty tough years again but dealing with a few down seasons to get the necessary talent infused into the upper minors will do wonders for this team(potentially). 

The issue with selling, however, is you're not selling very attractive pieces. Escobar fetches you a borderline top 100 prospect probably. Santiago gets you a few decent prospects or one upside guy. Street might get you something nice if he has a good next month but he's been very bad this year. Smith/Salas probably get you some high risk A pitcher or a AAAA outfielder of sorts. Maybe you shop Shoemaker since his value has skyrocketed but surely some teams will be skeptical. It's almost worth considering seeing what he does the rest of the year and shopping him in the offseason. 

Eppler and the Angels are in a tough spot for sure. The upcoming free agent class is hot garbage, the farm system is hot garbage and the MLB roster is mediocre riddled with injuries to key guys. The team is currently 11 games under .500 so getting back to being competitive is going to require some ballsy moves in the next few years. 

I really like Escobar, but unless the Angels get great news on Heaney/Richards, I think we'd waste him next year, and if he reverts at all, we won't get much for him. He'd probably bring back one good prospect. 

Santiago has torpedoed his value. We're better off keeping him. If he sucks, we're probably sucking with him regardless. If he turns anything around or finds success in a different role, his value goes up and we can deal him then. His versatility is a handy thing for a pseudo-rebuilding team. You can trot him out there if Nate Smith struggles in a cup of coffee so we don't keep running him out there and destroy him before he's ready. 

Agreed on Salas, Street, and Smith. Soto is in that camp as well. 
I wait a year or two before I consider dealing Simmons. He's still young enough where he could turn around very quickly and become a hugely valuable player. He hasn't done anything to increase his value and we'd be selling lower on him than the high price we paid. 

I hold onto Shoemaker and roll the dice on him. I don't think he's proven enough for any team to pay what we're dreaming of - yet. 
If he keeps this up through the rest of the season, you could probably get a much more legitimate return. If he keeps this up into next year, we can either hold onto him if we feel we're close to competing again, or sell him at perhaps a price that is exceptionally high, legitimately turning around the farm in one trade. The potential return in that scenario is totally worth the gamble. 

[totdprods]

I also get that we could also just keep Calhoun and sign one of Reddick/Saunders/Jay/etc, but I feel that we're more likely to find a replacement for Calhoun in the OF through FA than we are at one of the other spots we badly need help at - SP, 2B, 3B, C. We'd be able to lock in a good talent and maybe two for those positions in return for Kole.

[Brent Maguire]

I'd consider locking up Calhoun before trading him. He's 28 already so I wouldn't do anything crazy but a 5-6 year deal that buys out the rest of his arb years would make some sense. A 5-6 year deal around 65-80 million dollars could make sense for both sides. 

While trading Calhoun could get you a good package, he's a quality player in his prime and possesses an all around skill set that should age pretty well. 

[totdprods]

15 minutes ago, Angels_Baseball said:

I'd consider locking up Calhoun before trading him. He's 28 already so I wouldn't do anything crazy but a 5-6 year deal that buys out the rest of his arb years would make some sense. A 5-6 year deal around 65-80 million dollars could make sense for both sides. 

While trading Calhoun could get you a good package, he's a quality player in his prime and possesses an all around skill set that should age pretty well. 

You could do a little more for Reddick and have him and whatever return Calhoun brings.

Not disagreeing with you, just saying. 

[Troll Daddy]

So without Richards and Heaney the Angels can't compete for our division in 2017? 

Really

[Mark68]

Thoughts and prayers are meaningless. This team is going nowhere, was not going anywhere even when Richards & Heaney were healthy.

Blow it up. There is no talent in the minors, and we need to get some.

The Cubs did it, now they have a team that is exciting and fun to watch. Oh, and they're pretty good, too.

[beatlesrule]

I'd even be fine with the front office spinning it that all the injuries are what caused the fire sale so to speak.  The message would be something like, we had a team that could compete if healthy but all the injuries forced us to take a different direction. It really sucks that we are going to waste at least another year or two of Mike Trout's Prime.

[Stradling]

2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

So without Richards and Heaney the Angels can't compete for our division in 2017? 

Really

Yes really. 

[Brent Maguire]

2 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

So without Richards and Heaney the Angels can't compete for our division in 2017? 

Really

Yes?

This team couldn't really afford to lose 2 of their top 5 players because of their depth. It's hard to envision them being a .500+ team without those 2. 

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, hangin n wangin said:

Is this a serious question?

Actually it is

[Troll Daddy]

3 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Ok. I'll answer.

No. They wouldn't compete.

Ok

[2112]

Street could bring back something, if he would quit tanking.   I would love to see what Bedrosian could do at closer. 

[Vegas Halo Fan]

It's pretty clear that we aren't going to be competitive this year no matter what. As barren as the farm is, my vote is to build for the future.

[arch stanton]

I guess I'm just not a fan of broad blanket concepts. If we're building for the future then what future?  The one the Royals started building for in 1986? Or the Pirates in 1993?  If we trade for more young pitchers what do we do when they end up in the TJS line with Richards and Heaney? 

I think I'm more inclined to keep looking to upgrade talent wherever the opportunity presents itself and let the teams looking to compete this year come to us with offers that make it worthwhile. You never know when you'll get a Smoltz for Doyle Alexander or a Bagwell for Larry Andersen. 

[beatlesrule]

At least the Lakers future is looking bright.

[Docwaukee]

23 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

So without Richards and Heaney the Angels can't compete for our division in 2017? 

Really

It would require the following:

Shoemaker would have to continue being the guy he's been for his last 7 starts for an entire season

One of Trop, Skaggs, or Santiago would have to step up their game and pitch like a true #2 for an entire season.  The other two would have to step in and provide consistent production in the middle of the rotation.  At least two of the three would have to be better and more consistent than they ever have.  

You probably have to sign a free agent SP on a 1 year pillow and get unexpected production.

Street would need to find the fountain of youth 

You would need at least three additional pen arms to provide solid production well above anything they've shown capable or you'd have to sign 2 guys and they'd have to do very well.  

Bedrosian would have to become dominant.  

One of perez or bandy would have to step up and become at least average

Escobar, Trout, and Calhoun would have to be the same

Pujols and Simmons would have to be better at the plate

We'd have to find a LFer to give us at least league average production.  

You probably also need to upgrade 2b somehow.  

 

The bolded items would have to happen.  Of the others, I think at least 1 and probably 2 of the 3 would need to happen.  

That's a lot of things that would need to go right TD.  Especially on the SP and pen side of things.  

I would put the odds at about 10%.  Even if it's 20%, your odds dramatically increase for 2018 when you get Heaney and Richards back.  You've got some expiring value over the next year and a half and you have to take advantage of that when the odds are that value isn't going to make the difference for you during that time.    

 

 

 

[Troll Daddy]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

It would require the following:

Shoemaker would have to continue being the guy he's been for his last 7 starts for an entire season

One of Trop, Skaggs, or Santiago would have to step up their game and pitch like a true #2 for an entire season.  The other two would have to step in and provide consistent production in the middle of the rotation.  At least two of the three would have to be better and more consistent than they ever have.  

You probably have to sign a free agent SP on a 1 year pillow and get unexpected production.

Street would need to find the fountain of youth 

You would need at least three additional pen arms to provide solid production well above anything they've shown capable or you'd have to sign 2 guys and they'd have to do very well.  

Bedrosian would have to become dominant.  

One of perez or bandy would have to step up and become at least average

Escobar, Trout, and Calhoun would have to be the same

Pujols and Simmons would have to be better at the plate

We'd have to find a LFer to give us at least league average production.  

You probably also need to upgrade 2b somehow.  

 

The bolded items would have to happen.  Of the others, I think at least 1 and probably 2 of the 3 would need to happen.  

That's a lot of things that would need to go right TD.  Especially on the SP and pen side of things.  

I would put the odds at about 10%.  Even if it's 20%, your odds dramatically increase for 2018 when you get Heaney and Richards back.  You've got some expiring value over the next year and a half and you have to take advantage of that when the odds are that value isn't going to make the difference for you during that time.    

 

 

 

The show must go on ... there's no guarantee success for any team. Of course getting one or both of Richards and Heaney makes the team better in 2017. 

You can't  depend on Richards and Heaney even in 2018. Your right about getting another frontline pitcher in the off season. 

We will defiantly need a dependable power bat behind Trout next season. If the FO decides to trade Escobar that will open another whole at lead off (I'm against it). The bullpen needs to be addressed of course. 

Every team has their weaknesses ... you don't need a team full of allstars to compete for a playoff spot. 

Its easy tearing down a team ... starting from scratch is very difficult. Putting a rookie team around Trout is ridiculously unfair to him and the fans. 

 

[Stradling]

Problem is even if Arte opens the checkbook this is a very weak free agent class, and since it is the prices will be high for average players.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

17 hours ago, arch stanton said:

I think I'm more inclined to keep looking to upgrade talent wherever the opportunity presents itself and let the teams looking to compete this year come to us with offers that make it worthwhile. You never know when you'll get a Smoltz for Doyle Alexander or a Bagwell for Larry Andersen. 

In order to upgrade, you have to have players that other teams want. We don't, for the most part.

[Troll Daddy]

13 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Problem is even if Arte opens the checkbook this is a very weak free agent class, and since it is the prices will be high for average players.  

what makes you believe he won't open his wallet? 

I think you'll find the 2017 free agent class     to be just fine. 

[gotbeer]

Angels need to make a decision of shitting or getting off the pot.  We need to decide and go a direction.  Rebuild, sell off all non future assets.  Or buy buy buy and try to compete.  (Of course our opportunity to do that was this offseason when it was a great FA class, and next offseason if we decide to buy buy buy, we truly are a team that has no clue since it's one of the worst FA classes in many years if not decades) 

So shit or get off the pot.  None of this reading a magazine like we have been doing for the last few years.

[Docwaukee]

14 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

The show must go on ... there's no guarantee success for any team. Of course getting one or both of Richards and Heaney makes the team better in 2017. 

You can't  depend on Richards and Heaney even in 2018. Your right about getting another frontline pitcher in the off season. 

We will defiantly need a dependable power bat behind Trout next season. If the FO decides to trade Escobar that will open another whole at lead off (I'm against it). The bullpen needs to be addressed of course. 

Every team has their weaknesses ... you don't need a team full of allstars to compete for a playoff spot. 

Its easy tearing down a team ... starting from scratch is very difficult. Putting a rookie team around Trout is ridiculously unfair to him and the fans. 

 

the use of cliche's won't make this team better.  

You just mentioned though, that we need to address the bullpen, grab a front line starter (somehow) and a middle of the order bat to hit behind Trout.  

Where is that stuff going to come from?  

There are no front line starters available on the free agent market unless you consider Cashner and his mid 4's era for the second year in a row to be one.  If you did, you'd be wrong.  There could be a guy looking to rebuild his value with a 1yr deal.  None of those potential candidates are exactly front line guys.  

How about that bat?  Ian Desmond? Michael Saunders? Cespedes? Reddick?  Outside of Cespedes, there isn't an impact bat and because of the relatively poor class, people are going to overpay.  Excuse me if I don't want to give Michael Saunders 15mil per season and lose a 2nd round pick to boot.  

Very few are suggesting putting a bunch of rookies around Trout.  I say keep Simmons, Calhoun and Shoe.  Trade guys who have value now that are leaving soon and see if you can't pick up some guys that will help you by 2018/2019.  

You have to be realistic.  No matter how much you want them to be good and don't want to give away a season, you have to play the hand your dealt.  

 

[Docwaukee]

12 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

what makes you believe he won't open his wallet? 

I think you'll find the 2017 free agent class     to be just fine. 

Your're delusional TD.  Be specific of what you think will help.  I would love to see some actual suggestions instead of the 'I trust Eppler to make the right choices' cop out.  

I want them to be good next year as well, but I don't want to see them miss another opportunity to get better in future when it's just not realistic in the present.  

[totdprods]

I still think they'll be in the mix for one 'name' FA, especially if we have a protected pick. And why not? We're shedding some salary and need to add talent any way we can - especially if it isn't at the expense of other talent. Arte will want to show some sign of trying to improve the team with money too.

Reddick makes sense. Could even be why they relented last offseason. They wanted him all along and didn't want to commit the dollars or years to someone this season instead.