Making a Murderer (Spoilers)

[Taylor]

Who else watched this on Netflix? Infuriating indictment against the police and criminal justice system. Very well done documentary.

[Ray McKigney]

I watched it. It certainly seemed that there was some cover up or even some outright planting of evidence. I recently read an article that stated that the filmmakers left out a lot of the prosecution's evidence from the film. Either way, it was a great series.

 

Here's the article about the prosecutor:

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/making-murderer-prosecutor-responds/2/

Edited January 2, 2016 by Ray McKigney

[Taylor]

The filmmakers responded to Kratz's claims:

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-filmmakers-fire-back-at-prosecutor-hes-not-entitled-to-his-own-facts/

Hard to believe a guy who has everything to gain and nothing to lose by speaking out.

[Ray McKigney]

The filmmakers responded to Kratz's claims:

http://www.thewrap.com/making-a-murderer-filmmakers-fire-back-at-prosecutor-hes-not-entitled-to-his-own-facts/

Hard to believe a guy who has everything to gain and nothing to lose by speaking out.

 

Some of the comments about Krantz at the bottom of the page are extremely interesting. The guy appears to be a total scumbag.

[Glen]

What a thoroughly depressing and disspiriting, yet essential series. I ****ing hate everyone involved with the prosecution, and especially the judges.

[Taylor]

What a thoroughly depressing and disspiriting, yet essential series. I ****ing hate everyone involved with the prosecution, and especially the judges.

 

Ken Kratz is one of the most despicable TV villains of all time.

[Ray McKigney]

Ken Kratz is one of the most despicable TV villains of all time.

Scary thing is he was a real prosecutor.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

It was an infuriating series. I feel for the nephew. As for Steven Avery, I don't necessarily believe he is innocent. In fact, I got the vibe that he is an expert bullshitter. However, be did not receive a fair trial and I think it's obvious that evidence was planted.

http://www.pajiba.com/netflix_movies_and_tv/is-steven-avery-guilty-evidence-making-a-murderer-didnt-present.php

[OregonLAA]

I honestly don't know what to believe. A lot of things are shady both ways. The stuff about the bleach and the phone being in the fire.

Kratz seems like a total scumbag either way

[Kevin]

The nephew's first lawyer (Len) was such garbage as well.

[Homebrewer]

Len is a criminal level idiot. How he ever gets another trial case is beyond me.

He really reminded me of William Macy's "Jerry" the car salesman in the movie Fargo. 

 

 

click to enlarge..

 

 

 

 

LOL I did a google image search...and found that I wasn't the only one who saw the resemblance!

 

Anyhow..I just finished this doc yesterday, and it was very disturbing. Horrific is the word that comes to mind most easily

.

 

[Homebrewer]

My favorite reporter 

Angenette Levy

 

[Taylor]

Len is a criminal level idiot. How he ever gets another trial case is beyond me.

He really reminded me of William Macy's "Jerry" the car salesman in the movie Fargo. 

 

images.jpg

 

click to enlarge..

 

 

 

 

LOL I did a google image search...and found that I wasn't the only one who saw the resemblance!

 

Anyhow..I just finished this doc yesterday, and it was very disturbing. Horrific is the word that comes to mind most easily

.

 

Funny. He reminded me and my wife of Lester from Season 1 of the Fargo TV show.

[Schildog]

i wanted to punch the television for about 90% of the viewing. so many things wrong. having a jury with relatives of the county's deputy sheriffs is deplorable. the blood was so obviously planted. i hope colburn and lenk get what's coming to them. 

[TobiasFunke]

Just finished episode 5 last night

[Kevin]

I believe that the evidence about Avery requesting her to come over and calling her with the *67 being left out should have been included in the documentary.

I know we're talking about some very uneducated people here but I just can't fathom someone on the brink of 36 million dollars blowing it and committing murder. Especially after spending 18 years in prison for a crime they didn't commit.

I was dumbfounded that every time I expected something to be done right because of things that had been poorly handled before, would once again be ****ed up.

If they are both innocent I hope this documentary does something for them to gain their freedom.

[Ray McKigney]

Defense evidence not in the documentary:

http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634

Edited January 13, 2016 by Ray McKigney

[mancini79]

I assumed that suspects that refused to be interrogated without the presence of a lawyer were guilty. After this docuseries, there is no way in hell I'm saying a word to investigators until I call Saul.  Will authorities use this footage to train investigators on what " not to do" in interviews....even though the end result was in their favor?

[mancini79]

Whether or not he committed the crime, the prosecution did not meet its burden.

Any number of things should've established reasonable doubt. That's why I don't care when I hear Kratz bitch about selected things only on the documentary.

 

True. There was no evidence of a rape, no blood where the supposed bloody murders occurred, no motive, & no blood on the gun. Not to mention that every piece of "crucial" evidence was discovered by Manitowoc County. The same county that was instructed to take a back seat because of the lawsuit Avery had against them.

[red321]

Just finished this up. Still not quite sure what to make of this.

 

The first thing that crosses my mind, if she was killed the way the police say she was...how in the hell could they have cleaned up all of the blood spatter and dna? Not a single hair in the bedroom...not a single drop of blood? You slit someone's throat...there's blood. Hell, my wife sliced her finger half off a few months ago and we are still finding blood drops...still trying to figure out how some of them ended up on the ceiling. Point being...not a single drop was found in the bedroom? And the key, the phone calls regarding the car, bone fragments found in different locations, bonfire's are not hot enough to burn bodies down to bone fragment level, etc. etc.

 

Lots of things that make you wonder what the hell was going on with that police department...and how the hell were they allowed within 10 miles of the case after the rape injustice.

 

With all that said...I'm wondering how much of that was how the information was presented though. They'd take something the prosecution said and then try and pick it apart...without really providing details from the prosecution's perspective like what would have happened in the court. So, I'm wondering how much that colors our point of view. It creates this doubt in our mind...but if we are sitting in the court, listening to 5 hours of testimony from the prosecution in excruciating details...does a theory from the defense stand up as much?

 

The Brendan case was a total travesty...regardless of innocent or guilt the kid deserved competent representation and did not receive it.

 

I do think an incredibly important thing we should take away from this is just how much of an advantage the police and prosecution have when it comes to criminal manners. Seems like every ruling from the judge was in their favor...and hell...the public defender's office did as much to convict Brendan as the prosecutors did.

[Homebrewer]

And how do multiple appellate and state supreme courts, all of them, let these verdicts stand? 

The old boy network reaches pretty high.

[mrwicked]

Just finished this up. Still not quite sure what to make of this.

 

The first thing that crosses my mind, if she was killed the way the police say she was...how in the hell could they have cleaned up all of the blood spatter and dna? Not a single hair in the bedroom...not a single drop of blood? You slit someone's throat...there's blood. Hell, my wife sliced her finger half off a few months ago and we are still finding blood drops...still trying to figure out how some of them ended up on the ceiling. Point being...not a single drop was found in the bedroom? And the key, the phone calls regarding the car, bone fragments found in different locations, bonfire's are not hot enough to burn bodies down to bone fragment level, etc. etc.

 

Lots of things that make you wonder what the hell was going on with that police department...and how the hell were they allowed within 10 miles of the case after the rape injustice.

 

With all that said...I'm wondering how much of that was how the information was presented though. They'd take something the prosecution said and then try and pick it apart...without really providing details from the prosecution's perspective like what would have happened in the court. So, I'm wondering how much that colors our point of view. It creates this doubt in our mind...but if we are sitting in the court, listening to 5 hours of testimony from the prosecution in excruciating details...does a theory from the defense stand up as much?

 

The Brendan case was a total travesty...regardless of innocent or guilt the kid deserved competent representation and did not receive it.

 

I do think an incredibly important thing we should take away from this is just how much of an advantage the police and prosecution have when it comes to criminal manners. Seems like every ruling from the judge was in their favor...and hell...the public defender's office did as much to convict Brendan as the prosecutors did.

 

it was very clearly biased documentary in favor of the avery's.

and of course there were things they didn't show, because it was a 6 week trial.

if you look back in this thread there are links to pieces of evidence not included in the movie, like the fact that he requested her numerous times and she asked her boss to stop sending her there.

and he called her many times the day of, and even tried to his his number.

not that he's innocent, but just some pieces that don't look great on him.

also the prosecution side, and the halbach's, refused to be involved in the documentary, so of course it was one-sided.

also look at the title, pretty clear the filmmakers had a position in what they were trying to show.

it was very interesting. what a sh*t show.

i think the lawyer said it best, you can be a perfect citizen, but if someone accuses you of something.. good luck.

 

yeah I'm surprised they weren't able to get out of wisconsin system and get a non clusterf*ck court to take a look and side with avery.

Edited January 19, 2016 by mrwicked

[Ray McKigney]

This is interesting. Although, I can't really see the multiple keys they're talking about:

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/making-a-murderer-new-evidence-teresa-halbach-keychain/2/

[nate]

I wouldn't be surprised if he was guilty but not in the way the prosecution portrayed it that is for sure.  No way that Avery should be in jail for that.  Also that Len guy that represented Brenden was such a scumbag, he has the most punchable face I have ever seen.

 

If she was shot in that garage there would have been blood splatter everywhere, no way you can clean that all up.  I wonder sometimes if Brenden's older brother did it.

[Ray McKigney]

that Len guy that represented Brenden was such a scumbag, he has the most punchable face I have ever seen.

 

 

He always had that befuddled smile on his face. Seemed like a complete dipshit.