Utley Suspended for Games 3&4

[floplag]

Utley broke his leg. That is egregious and not common place. The rest of your argument is just silly.

 

So by your argument if a player gets hurt, within the rules, the responsible party should be suspended?  really?  you think my argument is silly well thats just dumb.  How many times to guys get hurt on legit collisions and such... injury doesnt equal illegal.  

i agree the rule needs fixing, no question, ive argued that many times.. MLB has dragged its feet, done nothing... now a guy gets hurt on national TV and its OMG lets overreact to look like were doing something to not lose face.  Apparently that works for you, for me i call it hypocrisy 

[Blarg]

Yes, your speeding ticket argument was harvesting oranges in a potato patch.

 

The injury was enough to make the commissioner move on a rule that needed clarity while using his authority to look over the well being of the players and the sport. If you feel the rule needs fixing then there is no hypocrisy in making the first step in seeing it is.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Its ridiculous that anyone would say a slide like that happens every day in MLB.  That was the saddest excuse for a slide I've seen in 25 years of watching baseball.  I see one or two a year around the league that I really don't like, but this was the worst one I've seen.  The Lawrie slide against the Royals was questionable, but he was still at least sliding and you could see him try to get his foot up in the air so as not to do what Odor did to Giavotella.  I don't like how much leeway they have in those slides and never have.  There needs to be a clearer set of rules.  I think take out slides should still occur, but under more specific guidelines. 

[gotbeer]

Personally, I think that this suspension is absurd.  He broke no rules.  And the Players Union will have a lot to say about this.  They will not give the commissioner this type of power.  Because as baseball goes, this type of precedence of suspending a player just because NY is mad is a bad road to go down.  

 

This is one of those points, that can cause a shutdown after the 2016 CBA.  Because it's just too much power for the Commissioners office to suspend someone on a whim.  And that's what it is, since it's something that happens all the time.  

 

commissioner has said that this rule was broken.  5.09 (a) (13)  which reads:

 

 

(13) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play; Rule 5.09 43 Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m)

Comment): The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play

 

 

Considering A the defender never touched the bag thus the play was still alive at second.  B he did not leave the baseline.  

 

It's one thing to come out and say that this will no longer be tollerated, and put every player on notice.  Which is what should be done.  It's totally another thing to all of a sudden say this is not legal, you are suspended because we like NY better.  Even though the rules themselves say it was a legal play.  

[Jay]

The umpires blew the call they should be suspended.

 

Utley's slide was late but you can't show intent to do harm.  The worst they can really do is call interference on the play, and then maybe call the other runner out as well.  Can't do that now that the game is over.

 

The reason for the suspension is so that MLB doesn't look stupid under the bright lights of the playoffs.  Too late they already look stupid.  That play happens on a daily basis and rarely is anyone ever called out much less suspended.

 

Fix the rule, fix the officiating. Sorry a player got hurt.

[Blarg]

Personally, I think that this suspension is absurd.  He broke no rules.  And the Players Union will have a lot to say about this.  They will not give the commissioner this type of power.  Because as baseball goes, this type of precedence of suspending a player just because NY is mad is a bad road to go down.  

 

This is one of those points, that can cause a shutdown after the 2016 CBA.  Because it's just too much power for the Commissioners office to suspend someone on a whim.  And that's what it is, since it's something that happens all the time.  

 

commissioner has said that this rule was broken.  5.09 (a) (13)  which reads:

 

 

Considering A the defender never touched the bag thus the play was still alive at second.  B he did not leave the baseline.  

 

It's one thing to come out and say that this will no longer be tollerated, and put every player on notice.  Which is what should be done.  It's totally another thing to all of a sudden say this is not legal, you are suspended because we like NY better.  Even though the rules themselves say it was a legal play.  

 

The players association does not chose what powers the commissioner's office holds.

[Blarg]

The umpires blew the call they should be suspended.

 

Utley's slide was late but you can't show intent to do harm.  The worst they can really do is call interference on the play, and then maybe call the other runner out as well.  Can't do that now that the game is over.

 

The reason for the suspension is so that MLB doesn't look stupid under the bright lights of the playoffs.  Too late they already look stupid.  That play happens on a daily basis and rarely is anyone ever called out much less suspended.

 

Fix the rule, fix the officiating. Sorry a player got hurt.

 

The intent is the method chosen. Utley knew he was going to hit him with as much force as he could by delaying his hit to the last step and then went high. That is what makes the play illegal in terms of sportsman like conduct, he recklessly and with disregard to player safety tried to exert as much force as he could against the second baseman with his back turned to him. That is sufficient reason for the commissioners office to suspend him regardless of what the umpires ruled on the field.

[AngelsFanSince86]

The intent is the method chosen. Utley knew he was going to hit him with as much force as he could by delaying his hit to the last step and then went high. That is what makes the play illegal in terms of sportsman like conduct, he recklessly and with disregard to player safety tried to exert as much force as he could against the second baseman with his back turned to him. That is sufficient reason for the commissioners office to suspend him regardless of what the umpires ruled on the field.

 

Exactly.  This isn't some bumbling idiot running into someone on accident.  This is a professional athlete, a very good one at that, who is very aware of what is going on.  He understood he was throwing all his weight onto him.  He could have actually slid and would have still easily taken out Tejada because of the awkward position Tejada was in.  He chose instead to dive with all of his weight onto one of his legs.  

[floplag]

Yes, your speeding ticket argument was harvesting oranges in a potato patch.

 

The injury was enough to make the commissioner move on a rule that needed clarity while using his authority to look over the well being of the players and the sport. If you feel the rule needs fixing then there is no hypocrisy in making the first step in seeing it is.

 

There is a difference between acting, and overreacting.  He didn't act to give a darn about players, he acted to save face, you give the man FAR too much credit.  If you think otherwise, well... that's up to you i guess but i find it laughable.   At best he was protecting commodities, little more. As for the potato patch, at least i wasn't trying to farm them before hey were even planted.   

[Stradling]

Ok, but by saving face he is also protecting the players. So what's the harm?

[floplag]

The "intent" was to break up the double play, unless you guys suddenly become clairvoyant and somehow know he intended to hurt the guy.  
The rest is speculation and unworthy of consideration. 

Again im not defending the play, but there are many examples of the same kinds of play that didnt get anyone hurt and noone gave a rats arse so... spare me the hysterics 

[floplag]

Ok, but by saving face he is also protecting the players. So what's the harm?

None, but do it the right way.  Dont hang the player out to dry and affect the playoffs with knee jerk reactions.  

I am so looking forward to the conceding of outs the rest of the post and next season to appease the skirts. 

[Stradling]

Ok, then if his intent was to break up the double play as opposed to trying to be safe then it is against the rules.

[ukyah]

i have no problem whatsoever with utley, but i also wouldn't protect the catchers like we do now. collisions are sometimes part of the game, as are injuries. if i thought his goal was to injure the player and not break up the dp, then i'd feel differently.

[floplag]

Ok, then if his intent was to break up the double play as opposed to trying to be safe then it is against the rules.

How is breaking up a double play against the rules?  They teach that in pee wee ball for Pete's sake.  You are really going to play that one on this?  really?

 

The problem here is the damned neighborhood nonsense and bad rules, Utley played within them, someone got hurt.  it sucks but that's what it is. 

 

Even If this play had happened over the base people would still be bellyaching at Utley as being too aggressive so its lose lose either way.   

Bottom line, lets revoke the neighborhood nonsense, go back to foot on the bag, and play the darned game right.

Edited October 12, 2015 by floplag

[Jay]

Ok, but by saving face he is also protecting the players. So what's the harm?

 

and it hurts the Dodgers, so it's a win-win.

[Stradling]

How is breaking up a double play against the rules? They teach that in pee wee ball for Pete's sake. You are really going to play that one on this? really?

The problem here is the damned neighborhood nonsense and bad rules, Utley played within them, someone got hurt. it sucks but that's what it is.

Even If this play had happened over the base people would still be bellyaching at Utley as being too aggressive so its lose lose either way.

Bottom line, lets revoke the neighborhood nonsense, go back to foot on the bag, and play the darned game right.

You said his intent was to break up the double play so here you go:

Here's the rule for it.

Official Baseball Rule 5.09 (a)(13)

http://mlb.mlb.com/m...eball_rules.pdf

A batter is out when:

(13) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play;

Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

[Stradling]

How is breaking up a double play against the rules? They teach that in pee wee ball for Pete's sake. You are really going to play that one on this? really?

The problem here is the damned neighborhood nonsense and bad rules, Utley played within them, someone got hurt. it sucks but that's what it is.

Even If this play had happened over the base people would still be bellyaching at Utley as being too aggressive so its lose lose either way.

Bottom line, lets revoke the neighborhood nonsense, go back to foot on the bag, and play the darned game right.

You really think Utley played the game right? He waited until after the bag to slide and hit the guy with his shoulder.

[Jim]

Two pages and nobody picked this up and responded?

Here is the latest, Utley's agent has filed an appeal (figures, he gets a cut of playoff money) and if MLB does not respond to the appeal and make a response Utley is eligible to play.

 

If MLB wants to be idiots and look stupider than the NFL they don't immediately listen to the appeal and deny it under the best interest of the sport regardless of the appeal merit.

 

This is the Buster Posey argument, you can't leave it to players to police themselves when it comes to un sportsman like conduct. There must be guidelines where there is a reasonable protection for all players. The current rules are not specific enough but that still can be applied to this situation with the caveat that the commissioner is of the opinion that the recent spiking of Giavotella and other incidents point to a rise of on field violence that is not acceptable and Utley will be the precedence for the drafting of the new rule change.

 

Utley should not see the playing field. He really shouldn't be allowed to suit up. He should be suspended.

I think it’s quite obvious the commissioner’s office is making an attempt to keep this thing from spinning out of control, albeit not a great one. I believe both sides of this discussion have valid points, and there are a lot of them. I’m not defending Torre, but I don’t see how he had any other choice. Well, maybe I’m defending him a bit. Although, if he was going to suspend, why not suspend for the entire series?

 

Another part of this brouhaha I haven’t yet read in this thread is about the usual way one team pays back the other for these types of plays.  When a middle infielder is taken out in a particularly rough manner, the other team’s normal response is to take out the other teams MI’s in an equal or greater way.

 

I think the majority of Mets players might be feeling a bit disrespected, especially after hearing this fool only received a two game suspension. Imho, by suspending Utley two games (assuming the suspension sticks), Torre managed to put a highlighted bull’s eye on Seager and Kendrick’s back. Not that they didn’t already have one, but it will be even that much better lit now.

 

I sincerely hope this doesn’t spin out of control and one of Seager or Kendrick get hurt badly.  

Edited October 12, 2015 by Jim

[Jay]

Rule clearly states it's the umpire's judgment.  They didn't even make the interference call.  If they make the interference call then later the league can look at it and hand down a suspension.  But it wasn't even interference on the field.

 

Anyway the whole thing is MLB's fault they should own it.

[Troll Daddy]

Intent to breakup the DP is at 100%. Yes, he broke a rule that's is rarely called upon by umpires. He received a 2 game suspension that I hope is upheld. I think the call out at second should of been upheld. Dodgers will take it of course.

[Tank]

utley was wrong for sliding so late, practically on top of the base.

 

utley was wrong because his slide became an attempt to injure a defenseless player.

 

the ump was wrong for not calling him out at second for interference.

 

the umps in NY were wrong for not calling him out at second for intereference.

 

if the league doesn't act on this, an event seen on the national stage by millions, it's a HUGE blackeye on the sport. That they haven't corrected this since the buster posey incident at home really spotlights the need to fix this practice immediately.

 

utley's slide was chicken**** because tejada's back was to him. he ought to be suspended just for being a coward.

[floplag]

You said his intent was to break up the double play so here you go:

Here's the rule for it.

Official Baseball Rule 5.09 (a)(13)

http://mlb.mlb.com/m...eball_rules.pdf

A batter is out when:

(13) A preceding runner shall, in the umpire’s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play;

Rule 5.09(a)(13) Comment (Rule 6.05(m) Comment): The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire’s judgment play.

 

Well heck i hope you dont want that enforced every time it happens, lol 

[floplag]

You really think Utley played the game right? He waited until after the bag to slide and hit the guy with his shoulder.

 

didnt say that, what i said is that it happens frequently, and it never gets called.. so making an example here is nothing more than a lame attempt at saving face.  

[Jay]

utley was wrong for sliding so late, practically on top of the base.

 

utley was wrong because his slide became an attempt to injure a defenseless player.

 

the ump was wrong for not calling him out at second for interference.

 

the umps in NY were wrong for not calling him out at second for intereference.

 

if the league doesn't act on this, an event seen on the national stage by millions, it's a HUGE blackeye on the sport. That they haven't corrected this since the buster posey incident at home really spotlights the need to fix this practice immediately.

 

utley's slide was chicken**** because tejada's back was to him. he ought to be suspended just for being a coward.

 

Agree with everything you said except the rules must be enforced consistently not just when it can give the sport a black eye.

 

If Tejada avoids injury on the play there's no suspension just a lot of whining about the blown call.