The Angels Future LF is....

[tdawg87]

If we gave up 4 starting pitching prospects we better be getting an IMPACT bat, sure pollock is good would love to have him in left and leading off but we better be getting more back than just that for that package. Maybe if we could pry goldschmidt away from the d-backs we could throw in another piece and get them both. Move pujols to Dh, goldy to first, and pollock in left that deepens our lineup and adds a feared bat to hit 4th. Maybe I'm just underestimating what the trade market looks like right now though if we couldn't even get Ben Revere and his .640 ops for a reasonable package.

 

Would love to have him but it's not happening. The D-Backs have him signed through 2018 at least on a pretty team friendly deal.

[Second Base]

If the D-Backs did trade Pollock, it'd likely be for that type of package I mentioned (Santiago, Tropeano, Ellis and Rhoades).  He'd be at the top of our order, is only 27 years old, making the league minimum and wouldn't be a free agent for another 4 years.  Is it an overpay?  Yeah, probably, but the trade deadline is a seller's paradise.  If you were expecting to pay less, you'd be fooling yourself.  D-Backs don't want to trade Pollock, so you have to offer a package that almost forces that trade.

 

Plus two more things...

 

1. Just imagine Calhoun, Pollock, Trout and Pujols at the top of that order.  It'd likely help some of the Angels offensive woes. 

2. The Angels future rotation without the four we just traded would still likely be Richards, Newcomb, Heaney, Skaggs and Shoemaker with Nate Smith, Greyson Long and Joe Gatto somewhere around AA/AAA. 

[ettin]

Scotty that's a massive overpay. Two of those gets it done at best even at the trade deadline in my opinion.

[Stradling]

I would rather trade Richards for that impact bat than all four of those. If you can't get an impact bat that's in the same place in his development as Newcombe is for Newcombe, then keep your pitching and sign bats in free agency.

[Angel Oracle]

Are there any impending FA's who are impact OBP/baserunning guys? 

We have power with Trout and Pujols plus to a smaller extent Calhoun.

It'd be nice to replace the decent power that Freese is supplying in 2015, but OBP is really critical at this point.

 

Let's hope that the org guesses accurately enough on which pitching prospects to keep and to trade away.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Second Base]

If the Angels want an impact bat in LF from the free agent market, they'll need to layover 150 million for it.

And for those that say it's a massive overpay, yes you're right. But comparatively, it's expected. For example, acquiring Street as a closer, which costs less than a top of the order LF, required Rondon who at the time was a future starting SS, Lindsey who was seen as a future starting 2B, Alvarez, a future closer and Morris, a future back end piece.

Similarly, when the Angels acquired Dan Haren who was a #2 SP, they paid Saunders who was a 4/5, Skaggs who was thought to be a future 2/3, and Corbin who was thought to be a future 3/4.

A good #2 starter likely costs just about as much as a good offensive LF these days. So to pay Santiago who we think is a #4 SP, Tropeano, a future #3/4, Ellis, a future #3/4 and Rhoades, a future #4/5, it isn't as drastic of an overpay as you might think.

It is an overpay, but that's expected. That still leaves the future Angels with Richards and Newcomb (dual aces), Skaggs and Heaney (both #3's) and Shoemaker, who looks something like a #3 or 5 depending on the day.

[Angel Oracle]

If they trade Santiago, Tropeano, Ellis, AND Rhoades for a LF, they had better be DANG sure about the acquisition not being another Hackilton.

[TroutField]

Would love to have him but it's not happening. The D-Backs have him signed through 2018 at least on a pretty team friendly deal.

Yeah that's what's I figured just a dream scenario. Pollock would be great but we would be paying for a cemterfielder to play in left which would be great for the defense but it will cost us more. At the same time it may be a perfect fit so in the dreaded instance where trout may need a couple days off he can slide to center instead of having cowgill out there. Scotty said they don't want to trade him but I don't see how they wouldn't, they are using him as a part time outfielder it seems.

[ettin]

If the Angels want an impact bat in LF from the free agent market, they'll need to layover 150 million for it.

And for those that say it's a massive overpay, yes you're right. But comparatively, it's expected. For example, acquiring Street as a closer, which costs less than a top of the order LF, required Rondon who at the time was a future starting SS, Lindsey who was seen as a future starting 2B, Alvarez, a future closer and Morris, a future back end piece.

Similarly, when the Angels acquired Dan Haren who was a #2 SP, they paid Saunders who was a 4/5, Skaggs who was thought to be a future 2/3, and Corbin who was thought to be a future 3/4.

A good #2 starter likely costs just about as much as a good offensive LF these days. So to pay Santiago who we think is a #4 SP, Tropeano, a future #3/4, Ellis, a future #3/4 and Rhoades, a future #4/5, it isn't as drastic of an overpay as you might think.

It is an overpay, but that's expected. That still leaves the future Angels with Richards and Newcomb (dual aces), Skaggs and Heaney (both #3's) and Shoemaker, who looks something like a #3 or 5 depending on the day.

Then we'll have to agree to disagree Scotty.

I don't think Rondon will ever be more than a little above replacement level in the big leagues. Lindsey might become a starter but he'll have to turn the proverbial corner in making sure his bat plays. Alvarez is an 8th inning guy (IMO) and Morris has potential too.

Obtaining two controllable starters (3-5 years) for an offensive piece is within the realm of reason to me. Maybe there is a 3rd hitting prospect or reliever thrown in but I just don't see how anyone in their right mind would give up four controllable starters for one offensive piece unless that is Mike Trout.

I mean you have to look at what piece are we acquiring too? In the vacuum of a hypothetical you're giving away too much for a lot of offensive pieces out there.

And quite frankly I wouldn't use a Tony Reagins/Jerry Dipoto trade as a template for what should be "gotten" at the trade deadline.

[Second Base]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree Scotty.

I don't think Rondon will ever be more than a little above replacement level in the big leagues. Lindsey might become a starter but he'll have to turn the proverbial corner in making sure his bat plays. Alvarez is an 8th inning guy (IMO) and Morris has potential too.

Obtaining two controllable starters (3-5 years) for an offensive piece is within the realm of reason to me. Maybe there is a 3rd hitting prospect or reliever thrown in but I just don't see how anyone in their right mind would give up four controllable starters for one offensive piece unless that is Mike Trout.

I mean you have to look at what piece are we acquiring too? In the vacuum of a hypothetical you're giving away too much for a lot of offensive pieces out there.

And quite frankly I wouldn't use a Tony Reagins/Jerry Dipoto trade as a template for what should be "gotten" at the trade deadline.

 

- If we were going off current value, then absolutely ettin, you'd be right.  But we are talking about value at the time of the trade.  Obviously since the trade happened Rondon and Lindsey's value have both gone down, Alvarez helped bring in their catcher Derek Norris, and Elliot Morris is about the same. 

 

- I don't believe we can simply classify Pollock as simply an offensive piece.  This guy is on the brink of stardom.

 

- I only use the Haren deal to establish modern historical precedent.  In no way am I advocating that Tony Reagins was a GM worth considering in any format.  Though oddly enough, at the time of that trade everyone was going crazy because it was a HUGE steal for the Angels.  The Yankees were offering the D-Backs Jesus Montero!!  That guy was going to be the next Miguel Cabrera.  The media BLASTED D-Backs interim GM Jerry Dipoto for being a rookie in over his head and accepting a lesser deal from the Angels.  Of course, hindsight being 20/20, Dipoto got a pretty decent deal out of it.  Haren gave the Angels a year and a half of ace level production and a year of 5th starter level production.  In return, the D-Backs got Skaggs, who grew into the top LHP prospect in baseball and Corbin turned into an all-star.  

 

Again, I certainly wouldn't advocate that Santiago, Tropeano, Ellis and Rhoades isn't an overpay.  I'm simply saying that if the Angels are going to overpay like that, then Pollock is the type of guy you do it for.  I think a likelier scenario would be the Angels acquiring two lesser bats for that set, like Santiago and Rhoades for Brandon Moss and something in the realm of Tropeano and Ellis for Maybin/Markakis/Myers. 

[Inside Pitch]

Tropeano's value is nil until he gets over his rotator cuff tendonitis.   Just because the words rotator cuff have been mentioned I'm guessing he's viewed as high risk...

[Second Base]

Tropeano's value is nil until he gets over his rotator cuff tendonitis.   Just because the words rotator cuff have been mentioned I'm guessing he's viewed as high risk...

 

I think you're definitely right about that.  I think the only worse words in terms of pitchers would be "torn labrum".  I think at this point, tendinitis just means rest it and stretch it, be conservative until you're ready.  TJ means take a year and a half off and come back the same or even better.  But Labrum, that means you're done.  

[Angel Oracle]

That sucks to hear, but isn't surprising given how many pitchers today have rotator cuff issues. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Has everyone goven up on the idea for reddick? Doubt hed even be available, but if were talking about overpays hes one of the guys id like. Not sure how real his numbers this year are though

[beatlesrule]

It took Dipoto awhile to get these young arms.  I highly doubt he trades them away.

[Second Base]

Has everyone goven up on the idea for reddick? Doubt hed even be available, but if were talking about overpays hes one of the guys id like. Not sure how real his numbers this year are though

 

I think everyone has a hard time deciphering who he actually is, so interest is limited. 

[stormngt]

Can anyone remind me: what was the package the Angels offer for Cabrera?

[Second Base]

I think it was Wood, Kendrick, Santana, Mathis and Willits.  The Angels balked at Santana I believe.

[Hollyw00d]

Good call

[ten ocho recon scout]

Good call

haha, no sh*t. Looks real bad in hindsight.

To be fair though, at the time, they were looking to clean us out of a huge crop of highly touted prospects. Obviously wood sucked, but he was super hyped, and if i remember they also wanted howie. So wood, howie and santana for mcab who was also a year from free agency. And wasnt it the marlins who balked last minute?

Anyway, it didnt truly slap us in the face until he signed his deal w detroit almost immediately after landing there.

Bot that it helps us, but the package the marlins got in return was far worse than we offered

[Second Base]

Part of the deal was contingent upon him signing an extension. And to be fair, there are hundred of these type of deals where you wish you pulled the trigger. Angels drafted Matt Harvey and Buster Posey, didn't sign either . They were on the verge of trading Aybar twice. Once to the Orioles Erik Bedard another to the Cards for Wacha It was also reported that they lost out on Adrian Beltre by a mere 2 million dollars they were outbid by the Red Sox on Carl Crawford by 30 million They were going to sign Matt Garza for 10 million more than he got from the Brewers but he was on vacation and didn't respond They offered the same annual value the Padres gave to James Shields

[Angel Oracle]

To be fair, HS players like Posey who get drafted in the later rounds usually attend college if offered a scholly.

Matt Harvey's non-signing was a joke. For whatever reason, they underwhelmed him with their offer.

[Cdaniel]

I had no idea we drafted Harvey or buster, bummer. I wonder what we offered Harvey and what we ended up getting with their picks in the following years draft.

[Second Base]

To be fair, the Angels had it in their mind that they would make Posey into a pitcher instead of a catcher.

[Hollyw00d]

I had no idea we drafted Harvey or buster, bummer. I wonder what we offered Harvey and what we ended up getting with their picks in the following years draft.

Chevy clarke