Election Night 2014

[nate]

Looking at the bigger picture, and I don't condone theft, but in the grand scheme of things your daughter can get a new laptop and be fine.

If some idiot kid takes the laptop left out and it's a felony that shits stays with him the rest of his life....can't vote, denied from work, etc.

Just seems harsh to me. Same with getting caught pissing in public and having to register as a sex offender that stays with you forever.

 

You and Schil must have been pretty well off.  My daughter doesn't have an iPad by the way but if she did and it were stolen it would be a long time before we could replace it.  As a kid a $400 bike would have been a once in a lifetime thing.  I wouldn't have gotten another if it were stolen.

 

Edit: and we are right in the middle of middle class too.  Imagine for those that aren't.

Edited November 5, 2014 by nate

[Schildog]

What would stop that person from doing it again?

 

i dunno, stop being an asshole after some time in jail. 

[nate]

Unless the punishment is serious they have no reason to stop.

 

Also unless the punishment is serious they have no reason not to in the first place.  The whole point is not to punish the people that do it but to put measures in place to scare them out of doing it in the first place.

[Schildog]

agree to disagree on this?

[nate]

no

 

Time to watch Chelsea beat the shit out of some Slovenians anyway.

[gotbeer]

What about when you guys robbed Tanks house.  I think you all should go to jail for that.  Although stickboy might welcome it.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Republican sweep in Nevada is complete. Republican Adam Laxalt won the Attorney General race, the last one to be called last night. My Congressman, Democrat Steven Horsford, was defeated by relative unknown Cresent Hardy. Republicans also took control of both houses of the State Assembly. One of the few Democrats to survive was Congresswoman Dina Titus. Fortunately the state question on taxation of gross revenues of businesses who brought in more than $1 million was soundly defeated.

 

The percentage of Democratic voter turnout in Nevada was at its lowest level since 1958. Even with Bill Clinton and Joe Biden visiting the state in the days leading up to the election, there was little to persuade Democrats to go to the polls. They offered only token opposition to Governor Brian Sandoval (I never saw a political ad or mailer for the challenger, didn't even know who he was, even though I saw several for Sandoval in a race he had pretty much in the bag). Their candidate for Lieutenant Governor was significantly underfunded, and she was surrounded by scandal regarding gifts she had received in a prior office (it didn't help that she gave dismissive answers when asked about them). That left Attorney General, State Treasurer, State Controller and Secretary of State as the only truly contested statewide races on the ballot.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Vegas Halo Fan

[mtangelsfan]

Unless the punishment is serious they have no reason to stop.

 

Also unless the punishment is serious they have no reason not to in the first place.  The whole point is not to punish the people that do it but to put measures in place to scare them out of doing it in the first place.

 

I think we have come far enough along in our society where we can come up with something that will teach the same lessons along with keep the folks in jail that really need to be there.  Like I said, keep them in halfway houses or house arrest while they work off their debt doing volunteer work and pay the person they stole from back double.

[nate]

Most of these people never have the money to pay it back.  Most people who commit theft now when they go to prison end up in work camps not just sitting in a cell all day.

 

I don't care how the punishment is laid out as long as they are removed from their every day life, no contact with family and friends except in supervised visits and they spend their time in a dark cell with no entertainment.  Also we currently pay the people who are put in work camps, that is BS too.

[TobiasFunke]

Chop off fingers, that's what I say

[mtangelsfan]

Most of these people never have the money to pay it back.  Most people who commit theft now when they go to prison end up in work camps not just sitting in a cell all day.

 

I don't care how the punishment is laid out as long as they are removed from their every day life, no contact with family and friends except in supervised visits and they spend their time in a dark cell with no entertainment.  Also we currently pay the people who are put in work camps, that is BS too.

 

We need to start finding a way.  Jail doesn't work. 

[Brandon]

Eh, I didn't respond when he made personal. I don't like talking politics with people where it's ok in some circumstances but not when it happens to them like he did with the consequence being fine if it was a department store, but suddenly the rules are different if it's the same item but done to him directly.

 

You can still jail people without putting a felony on their record that follows them the rest of their life.

 

My reasoning also has to do with what is referred to as "the cycle" with social service employees and groups, or "the trap" in the hood. Keeping people suppressed for an isolated incident only incites potential problems if people aren't allowed to progress from their situation.

[AngelsLongBall]

what are we talking there nate, home robbery? i got over the bikes that were stolen from me as a kid pretty quickly. 

Don't go robbing homes in Long Beach.  You're liable to get yourself killed

[Angel Oracle]

Bye Scary Reid, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out!

[nate]

Meh if you don't want felony on your record for the rest of your life then don't do it.  Even if you have been rehabbed you are still a rehabbed felon.  I don't have any sympathy for them.

[Jay]

We need to start finding a way.  Jail doesn't work. 

 

Oh but it does

 

[Brandon]

Of course you don't, if it affects you.

 

Unfortunately a lot of people under the age of 25 or so don't comprehend what a felony is and means with life time repercussions.

 

But agreed dude, let's just hang them.

[nate]

Lol... sorry but it isn't like they don't know what they are doing is wrong.  Why should we give people under 25 a pass?

[Brandon]

Yeah, I think jail works with the people not likely to commit the crimes again and that lose something in the process like employment, their home, etc.

 

But unfortunately just like some diseases aren't curable, some people can't be fixed and whether jailed or not will commit the same crimes when free.

 

One aspect I have changed over the years with education is rehabilitation. 

[Brandon]

Lol... sorry but it isn't like they don't know what they are doing is wrong.  Why should we give people under 25 a pass?

 

Who's getting a pass?

 

I'm not talking about letting them walk out of court.

 

Doing something wrong and having a stigma and life time tag isn't in the same ballpark to me.

[wopphil]

if corporations acted ethically on their own, i'd be all for it.

What exactly is it that corporations do which is so wrong? Provide jobs to people? Pay taxes?

[Tank]

what are we talking there nate, home robbery? i got over the bikes that were stolen from me as a kid pretty quickly. 

 

thanks to the generosity of others, we're recovering nicely from the stolen computers and ipad. it's inconvenient, but it's very manageable. 

 

however, the guy who stole my identity documents took things that don't have a specific retail value for their worth (although there's a price to replace them). that kind of stuff could be used for years to rip me off. people who do things like that deserve jail time. 

 

he has also stolen from us our peace of mind. we can't even go to church for a few hours without wondering if our things are still going to be there when we return. can't place a value on that. off to the clink he should go.

[mtangelsfan]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/america-s-recidivism-nightmare.html#

 

The study, released Tuesday, tracked 404,638 state prisoners from 30 states who were released in 2005. It found that 67.8 percent of them were re-arrested within three years of their release and 76.6 percent were re-arrested within five years. Of the latter group, more than a third were re-arrested in the first six months after leaving prison, and more than half were arrested by the end of the first year, showing that the rate of recidivism was highest during the first year and declined every year after that.

 

 

 

It really doesn't work Jay.  All your graph shows is that some form of punishment can work as a deterrent but this shows that jail basically makes sure that those you send there will go back.

[nate]

Who's getting a pass?

 

I'm not talking about letting them walk out of court.

 

Doing something wrong and having a stigma and life time tag isn't in the same ballpark to me.

 

Let the people evaluating the person make that decision, don't just give them a pass.  The only thing it really effects is job applications anyway.  Employers should know if the person they are hiring is a thief.  They can decide if the reason they don't have another conviction is because they are reformed or because they just haven't been caught yet.  The convict shouldn't get the benefit of a doubt.

[Thomas]

Oh but it does

 

 

The single thing that has the highest correlation to incarceration is the amount of lead in the atmosphere. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/01/03/how-lead-caused-americas-violent-crime-epidemic/