So what is everyone's thoughts on Obama's plan for ISIS?

[Adam]

Sweet another ISIS beheading

[Adam]

Are we sure ISIS aren't Mexicans?

 

They all drive landscaping trucks

[floplag]

This pretty much sums up what I was going to say to calscuf. Yes we made things ugly in the Middle East, but when can we say, "ok finally this isn't our problem." We as a nation will never say that. We did everything we could in my opinion to prop up Iraq before we left. Anything else that happens afterwards is on them.

 

Cant agree.  many many people that are not of the liberal democrat ticket predicted these results.   To suggest we did all we could is frankly wishful thinking, or ostrich syndrome

[nate]

We did more than we should.

 

We are seriously affecting the life of those in this country by spending money and American lives fighting for people who we never should give a shit about.

[InsideThePark]

ISIS recently murdered who they say were 1,500 Iraqi POWs. Sure as shit we knew that they had them and were going to do that. Why didn't we stop them? Why didn't we prevent the murders?

 

We know of terrible atrocities going on in Africa but we as a country don't do anything about them. Why? Because "we don't have the resources in place"? We are a country that picks and chooses what good we want to do because of various reasons (religious, political, etc.) and not from the kindness of our hearts. And more often than not that shit has gotten us in a world of trouble (pun intended).

 

Bad things happen ITP. I'd love for you to be the one that says that yes we'll save those 10,000 people from the slaughter but not those 10,000 people. I can easily say to you when denying the chance to save some 10,000 humans in Village X because of resources that it's some messed up shit. But I won't because it's not as simple as that.

Repeating the same crap: Because we don't help everyone, we should help no one.

Look, it's a shame the US and the rest of the world doesn't do more to help all the suffering. But that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have saved the Yazidi from potential genocide. Sure we did it because it also served our interest but I don't understand why anyone would be opposed to it.

[TobiasFunke]

We did it because the news channels happened to pick it up therefore outcry from mother superiors like yourself.

[InsideThePark]

Lol

[gotbeer]

ISIS recently murdered who they say were 1,500 Iraqi POWs. Sure as shit we knew that they had them and were going to do that. Why didn't we stop them? Why didn't we prevent the murders?

 

 

If this is true, I just wonder where the international tribunal is?  Heck, we aren't done hunting down Nazi's.  We aren't done taking their assets.  We aren't done giving back what was taken.  

 

Guys in Africa.  Guys in the middle east.  Cut off the money, THEN hunt all of them down.  They were guards just following orders, who cares.  Do to them like we have done to the Nazi's.  Someone buys their oil on the black market, you freeze whoever bought that oils assets, and take what was wrongfully gained.  Would any company buy their oil?  Our money would be better spent, chasing and taking the money, instead of wasting it on a battle that is constantly being funded by blood oil.

 

You look at the articles on why people are leaving the "US choice" for freedom fighters against Assad.  The main reason people are leaving isn't because they are losing, or because they don't believe in the cause.  It's because they don't get paid.  You look at ISIS, and I bet about 90% of their soldiers have no better option.  How many US citizens would fight for ISIS if they offered them $30 an hour?  In the middle east (according to this article what a person in India makes), $80 a week is 4x more than what they could get working at McDonalds.  One year, that is $4,160.  A million dollars pays for 240 hypothetical soldiers.  They are making billions selling black market oil.  

[Tank]

Using drones and bombing runs will help, but only for a little while. At some point I expect us to send in the troops. We can can't be half-committed in this.

[arch stanton]

If this is true, I just wonder where the international tribunal is?  Heck, we aren't done hunting down Nazi's.  We aren't done taking their assets.  We aren't done giving back what was taken.  

 

Guys in Africa.  Guys in the middle east.  Cut off the money, THEN hunt all of them down.  They were guards just following orders, who cares.  Do to them like we have done to the Nazi's.  Someone buys their oil on the black market, you freeze whoever bought that oils assets, and take what was wrongfully gained.  Would any company buy their oil?  Our money would be better spent, chasing and taking the money, instead of wasting it on a battle that is constantly being funded by blood oil.

 

You look at the articles on why people are leaving the "US choice" for freedom fighters against Assad.  The main reason people are leaving isn't because they are losing, or because they don't believe in the cause.  It's because they don't get paid.  You look at ISIS, and I bet about 90% of their soldiers have no better option.  How many US citizens would fight for ISIS if they offered them $30 an hour?  In the middle east (according to this article what a person in India makes), $80 a week is 4x more than what they could get working at McDonalds.  One year, that is $4,160.  A million dollars pays for 240 hypothetical soldiers.  They are making billions selling black market oil.  

I'm a huge believer in following the money. The problem is that nobody really wants this to all go away. We're making a killing selling weapons and ammo and we're not really threatened in any real way. It's win-win, unless you are trying to live a peaceful life in Syria or Iraq.

[TobiasFunke]

I'm a huge believer in following the money. The problem is that nobody really wants this to all go away. We're making a killing selling weapons and ammo and we're not really threatened in any real way. It's win-win, unless you are trying to live a peaceful life in Syria or Iraq.

Completely agree. Defense contractors are loving life.

[floplag]

We did more than we should.

 

We are seriously affecting the life of those in this country by spending money and American lives fighting for people who we never should give a shit about.

 

I'm not arguing that and i agree on that point, however, once our leaders made the decision to go there, we should have had the fortitude to finish the job and commit to that rather than walking away and leaving a vacuum.

When we walked away when we did, how we did, this was inevitable.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not arguing that and i agree on that point, however, once our leaders made the decision to go there, we should have had the fortitude to finish the job and commit to that rather than walking away and leaving a vacuum.

When we walked away when we did, how we did, this was inevitable.

Define "finish the job"? What more could we have done to secure Iraq for the future.

[gotbeer]

I'm a huge believer in following the money. The problem is that nobody really wants this to all go away. We're making a killing selling weapons and ammo and we're not really threatened in any real way. It's win-win, unless you are trying to live a peaceful life in Syria or Iraq.

 

Hate when the movie Lord of War seems more factual than a fictional piece.

[Blarg]

Hate when the movie Lord of War seems more factual than a fictional piece.

 

Yeah, it would have been easier to believe if it were Di Caprio instead of Nick Cage.

[nate]

Define "finish the job"? What more could we have done to secure Iraq for the future.

 

I thought we already finished the job?

 

 

[acro2008]

I thought we already finished the job?

 

 

Oil companies didn't like Iraq's open public defiance of the petrodollar.   I think in that regard mission was probably accomplished.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I'm not arguing that and i agree on that point, however, once our leaders made the decision to go there, we should have had the fortitude to finish the job and commit to that rather than walking away and leaving a vacuum.

 

Using this logic, we would still have troops on the ground in Vietnam. At some point you have to decide that you have done all that you reasonably could have, and not keep pouring resources down the same bottomless hole.

Edited September 14, 2014 by Vegas Halo Fan

[floplag]

Define "finish the job"? What more could we have done to secure Iraq for the future.

 

oh, i dont know... maybe not walk away leaving a vacuum?

what did you think was going to happen when we left i wonder?

[floplag]

Using this logic, we would still have troops on the ground in Vietnam. At some point you have to decide that you have done all that you reasonably could have, and not keep pouring resources down the same bottomless hole.

 

and what point is that?  how do you define that?  how did Vietnam work out for us since you picked that example.

either way we didnt pull out of Iraq due to any logic like that, it was just political pressure and capital, not logic, not completion.

 

[TobiasFunke]

oh, i dont know... maybe not walk away leaving a vacuum?

what did you think was going to happen when we left i wonder?

 

...ok...then what could we have done to not leave a vacuum?

 

My take is that there is nothing else we could have done for Iraq. You obviously think we could have done more. I'm curious in what you think what more we could have done.

[floplag]

...ok...then what could we have done to not leave a vacuum?

 

My take is that there is nothing else we could have done for Iraq. You obviously think we could have done more. I'm curious in what you think what more we could have done.

 

Should we have left troops, higher presence, whatever.. i don't know the answer to that.   What i know is that we left an incomplete job and a huge power vacuum in a part of the world not known for its reasonable ideologies.  We toppled a regime, and left before anything stable had taken hold, thats incomplete and unfinished.

 

As for what else we could have done, preventing something as predictable as this, should have counted.  Any other specifics are conjecture. 

We didn't leave because the job was done, we left cause it was the popular thing to do stateside.

 

You are asking for specifics like it matters, even the generalities prove the point.  At this point its argumentative, and getting boring.

 

[Adam]

We should've just made it Iramerica

[Kevin]

Flop, if you can solve the the differences between the Sunnis and Shia, more power to you. As long as these two hate each other and will do anything to kill one another, doesn't matter how long we stayed in Iraq. It's a futile situation. We did all we could in the end as far as training, arming, spending, spending, spending, and more spending. This was the result. Tens of thousands of Iraqi and foreign terrorists were killed and tens of thousands replaced them. Hundreds of thousands civilians died at the hands of terrorists and the U.S. military. Thousands of U.S. soldiers killed and maimed.

I hate to use this phrase but it is what it is.

[arch stanton]

The only viable answer to what they have now is what they had before.