So what is everyone's thoughts on Obama's plan for ISIS?

[Adam]

I absolutely do not want to bring in the topic of Israel in here, but I will real quick.

 

It's unfortunate that we are besties with them therefore have to hate Iran because Iran would be a great ally in the Middle East. To be honest they would be the best ally we have. They aren't arab, don't need our money for assistance, they are moderate for the most part, and IS will eventually be their enemy. Sure would be nice to utilize them.

 

But Iran when it comes to Middle Eastern conflicts are smart, they stay out of everything when it doesn't concern them.

 

Maybe in terms of self-interest, but in terms of like-mindedness (freedom, democracy, economic diversity and potential) Israel should be our friend. Perhaps the relationship dynamics should be amended though.

 

Why can't we be friends with both? That is on Iran

[Caralho]

I'm not a fan of this intervention especially without any real help from Arab countries. But I do dislike the logic that since American can't or decides not to help everybody, that helping anybody is somehow morally bad. I mean if there are 10 people drowning and you can only save one, it's not hypocritical to save one person. There are a lot of trouble spots all over the world, even with our armed forces, it would be impossible to intervene in every single spot that might need it. As for this intervention we are depending on the Iraqi army to actually fight, the Syrian moderates who mostly can't fight to be effective with weapons and a political solution in Iraq so that the Sunnis don't feel as alienated. It's basically trying to thread the needle and I don't think America can do it.

[TobiasFunke]

Maybe in terms of self-interest, but in terms of like-mindedness (freedom, democracy, economic diversity and potential) Israel should be our friend. Perhaps the relationship dynamics should be amended though.

 

Why can't we be friends with both? That is on Iran

I would love for us to be friends with both. And it's not just on Iran, when you consider a country in the "Axis of Evil" that's your mentality, not theirs.

[nate]

We are friends with countries much worse than Iran.

 

It comes down to philosophical differences.  Namely Christianity vs Islam.

 

I wish the US would be much more selfish and worry about the economy of the US and their place in the world economy, instead of what kind of government other countries have, what their religion is, or what they do to their people.

 

What has happened in Africa as far as ethnic cleansing is far worse than what has happened in the middle east.  10 fold really.  We didn't intervene.  I surmise that there are two reasons for that, African nations are mostly very poor with very little to offer by giving them "freedom" and the cleansing has been ethnic and not religion based.

[Adam]

I would love for us to be friends with both. And it's not just on Iran, when you consider a country in the "Axis of Evil" that's your mentality, not theirs.

 

Fair enough. Its all self-interest to the extreme with most people, including world leaders.

[TobiasFunke]

 

It comes down to philosophical differences.  Namely Christianity vs Islam.

 

I completely disagree with this.

 

It has mostly everything to do with the Shah still and of course Israel.

[mtangelsfan]

We are friends with countries much worse than Iran.

 

It comes down to philosophical differences.  Namely Christianity vs Islam.

 

I wish the US would be much more selfish and worry about the economy of the US and their place in the world economy, instead of what kind of government other countries have, what their religion is, or what they do to their people.

 

What has happened in Africa as far as ethnic cleansing is far worse than what has happened in the middle east.  10 fold really.  We didn't intervene.  I surmise that there are two reasons for that, African nations are mostly very poor with very little to offer by giving them "freedom" and the cleansing has been ethnic and not religion based.

 

I can see you are stuck on this but it really isn't true.  We are allies with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc.  They are all Islamic countries. 

[TobiasFunke]

Fair enough. Its all self-interest to the extreme with most people, including world leaders.

tr00f

[TobiasFunke]

I'm a sucker for Rick Steves. Here's his special when he went to Tehran which was a special offshoot episode since obviously he only goes to European places. Watching this video makes me hope that one day we'll be pals with Iran. I think we have much more in common than we think.

 

https://www.ricksteves.com/watch-read-listen/video/tv-show/tv-specials/iran/iran-pledge-special

[Blarg]

I absolutely do not want to bring in the topic of Israel in here, but I will real quick.

I don't want to eat donuts and get fat but they are so delicious.

That's why I eat them quick.

[floplag]

Fixed.

 

actually i would say both... the UN, NATO, any of them are little more than frat house at this point without the benefits

[mtangelsfan]

I would also add that it isn't just Iran vs. Israel.  Iran is not overly popular with most of our current allies in the Middle-East.  We certainly pissed off the Saudi's earlier this year when we were trying to make nice with Iran. 

 

As somebody said earlier, Iran is not Arabic and that is an issue over there. 

[Blarg]

I take on another show and the JC Poli-Sci forum blows up. I can hardly keep up on the Trout beanings, let alone this thread. Keep up the good work.

[floplag]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/12/world/middleeast/john-kerry-saudi-arabia-isis-strategy.html?_r=0

 

yeah, am i the only one that thinks this is little more than lip service again?

we got promises like this from many ofthese countries for year, and they have done virtually nothing.

At this point his is little more than the "were gonna say the right things to keep the money flowing but when the chips are down do nothing" speech weve seen before

[TobiasFunke]

I would also add that it isn't just Iran vs. Israel.  Iran is not overly popular with most of our current allies in the Middle-East.  We certainly pissed off the Saudi's earlier this year when we were trying to make nice with Iran. 

 

As somebody said earlier, Iran is not Arabic and that is an issue over there. 

That was me and I completely agree.

 

I think if we can be allies with Egypt and Israel then we can certainly be allies with Iran and Israel.

 

MT, I'm not quite sure the beef between Iran and the Saudis. Can you give me a brief rundown?

[nate]

I can see you are stuck on this but it really isn't true.  We are allies with Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait etc.  They are all Islamic countries. 

 

Yes but they are Islamic countries that are not aggressive or violent toward Christians.

[mtangelsfan]

Yes but they are Islamic countries that are not aggressive or violent toward Christians.

 

Neither is Iran for the most part.  It isn't easy for Christians to exist in any of those countries though.  I don't really believe that has much to do with anything.  It is money and power that drives this country, not what religion a country practices.

[nate]

Iran basically executes Christians any chance they get.

 

Iran is also a threat to the US while those other countries aren't.  They are all very progressive for Islamic countries.

 

SA has some definite anti American sects but they also have boat loads of money so we aren't likely to piss them off.

[nate]

Same reason we put up with all of China's shit by the way.

[Jay]

What has happened in Africa as far as ethnic cleansing is far worse than what has happened in the middle east.  10 fold really.  We didn't intervene.  I surmise that there are two reasons for that, African nations are mostly very poor with very little to offer by giving them "freedom" and the cleansing has been ethnic and not religion based.

 

What we need are some YouTube videos of Sudanese chopping some Western journalists' heads off, combined with some high-profile kidnappings.  That should do the trick.

[mtangelsfan]

That was me and I completely agree.

 

I think if we can be allies with Egypt and Israel then we can certainly be allies with Iran and Israel.

 

MT, I'm not quite sure the beef between Iran and the Saudis. Can you give me a brief rundown?

 

I'm not sure either but if you were Iran, would you trust the U.S.?

 

I mean we screwed that country big time when we put the Shaw in there.  Then we backed Saddam in his war against them.  I don't blame Iran one bit for not liking the U.S.

[nate]

What we need are some YouTube videos of Sudanese chopping some Western journalists' heads off, combined with some high-profile kidnappings.  That should do the trick.

 

Sadly, dozens of westerners have been killed in Khartoum in the last few years.

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not sure either but if you were Iran, would you trust the U.S.?

 

I mean we screwed that country big time when we put the Shaw in there.  Then we backed Saddam in his war against them.  I don't blame Iran one bit for not liking the U.S.

Absolutely not. I don't blame Iran either. It's going to take years of trust building (maybe the two countries can go to a summer camp together) to become allies. I'm talking YEARS.

[Jay]

Sadly, dozens of westerners have been killed in Khartoum in the last few years.

 

how many western journalists beheadded on YouTube?

[TobiasFunke]

how many western journalists beheadded on YouTube?

Is that your breaking point Jay? If it's on youtube or not?