Dipoto and Mike are staying??

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

@Alden_Gonzalez: Scioscia and Dipoto staying; Picciolo dismissed: http://t.co/oE5am2guhz #Angels

[AngelsAndRamsFan]

LOL

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

[ten ocho recon scout]

People complaining about Scioscia and how he preps the team during Spring Training and whether this effects the team at the start of the season is ridiculous. A bunch of thoughts without any evidence or coherency.

I've heard enough through people connected to the game that many players, including former dodger teammates, can't stand Scioscia. The reasons why legitimately question whether he is the person to lead this team.

This is just my opinion, gleaned from talking to those who know more than I. And no, I'm not sharing who my sources are. I'm just exercising my 1st amendment rights. This isn't Britain with its hideous libel laws.

and your 5th amendment.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Source: 4 years of shitty baseball is worse than 1 year of shitty baseball.

after sex, I often tell women two minutes in heaven is better than one minute in heaven.

[ten ocho recon scout]

every single team deals with these same freaking injuries. Do you really want me go playoff team to playoff team to list all the players that got hurt.

I'm not even trying to argue if Scioscia is at fault for not being able to win with a normal amount of injuries. Most of the blame falls on Jerry D for that.

I agree that generally speaking, all teams will face injuries. That said, injuries to key players are no small issue.

Weaver is our number 1 (and would be for a lot of teams). Losing him will have the same effect (in the opposite direction) as adding him would be to a staff.

Pujols is supposed to be a big part of the offense. Sure, he was mediocre this year but was also playing hurt. Completely removing him for 2+ months is gonna have an effect.

Everyone is pissed because of the end result, and the let down is based off of expectations. The expectations are based on our names and salary....

So imagine taking our team, subtracting weaver, pujols (for starters), and their salary. Would it really be a stretch to consider that team just an average one? (Ignoring the other injuries).

[kevinb]

every single one of those articles was pure speculation. It's still pure speculation with zero foundation. Sports writers are not reliable sources particularly when they clearly indicate they are speculating. Then they feed off of each other perpetuating the speculation.

That is absolutely flawed logic. So now you don't believe reporters, sports reporters or basically anyone? Hmm then by your reasoning what are you doing on a baseball message board, because your way of thinking everything is false and nothing is true. So no one has any information and everything being written is incorrect. Why do these writers get paid what they do if nothing they say is correct. Why even have sports reporters, news media, the internet and the radio. Hell for the last whatever years why has there been even newspapers or news outlets. Everything they report is false in your head. 

 

Obviously that is not true. I think sports writers and even news journalists have things mostly right now. There is too many news reporters too many ways to get to the truth today then just to make up stories. 

Edited October 10, 2013 by Kevinb

[Lifetime]

That is absolutely flawed logic. So now you don't believe reporters, sports reporters or basically anyone? Hmm then by your reasoning what are you doing on a baseball message board, because your way of thinking everything is false and nothing is true. So no one has any information and everything being written is incorrect. Why do these writers get paid what they do if nothing they say is correct. Why even have sports reporters, news media, the internet and the radio. Hell for the last whatever years why has there been even newspapers or news outlets. Everything they report is false in your head. 

 

Obviously that is not true. I think sports writers and even news journalists have things mostly right now. There is too many news reporters too many ways to get to the truth today then just to make up stories

Nice strawman, speaking of flawed logic 

Edited October 11, 2013 by Lifetime

[kevinb]

Nice strawman, speaking of flawed logic 

How? You basically said you don't trust reporters. So everything they say is now false. Especially when it comes to the Angels. So you obviously don't read anything they say unless it is just for entertainment purposes. But don't believe what they say at all. So how do you come to your conclusions about anything that is going on with the Angels? Just what you see by watching games in person or on tv? Do you watch the games with no sound on? Because the people in the booth don't know what they are talking about

[Lifetime]

that's not "basically"  what I said 

[T.G.]

LT doesn't believe it when writers quote anonymous sources or come to conclusions based on the discussions they have with anonymous sources (at least in this the case of Arte Moreno) Okay... so be it.  That's his prerogative.

 

The issues for some is that LT takes issue with us accepting this information as factual and then using it as fact in our discussions. This all started when LT made the following statement: "I love the way speculation about Arte strong arming acquisitions has now turned into fact of the matter in these discussions."

 

In hindsight - we should have just ignored his displeasure and continued on with the discussion rather than trying to convince him that the statements are fact.  Neither side is budging... so, it's pointless.  It's really okay that he thinks it's all speculation.  We shouldn't care that much about what he thinks in this case.  It just deters us from the original discussion.  Just saying.

[Lifetime]

I don't accept speculation as fact. Pardon me for expressing my opinion on that True Grich. 

[nate]

LT, you speculate constantly in this forum though.

 

"coaches are doing all they can" "coaches aren't the problem" etc.

 

It s very widely agreed that Arte made those moves.  You are just about the only person that doesn't.

[T.G.]

LT - we just differ on whether or not it's speculation.  By definition: Speculation is the forming of a theory without firm evidence.  The writers have firm evidence in the testimony of those close to the situations within the Angels organization.  You dispute that as evidence.  You want a confession or a video or something that's not available and since it's not available - what they say isn't good enough for you.  Some of us don't think that way.  It's time to move on.

[Lifetime]

LT, you speculate constantly in this forum though.

 

"coaches are doing all they can" "coaches aren't the problem" etc.

 

It s very widely agreed that Arte made those moves.  You are just about the only person that doesn't.

Of course I speculate all the time. I have no problem with speculation, we all do it especially here. We express our opinions based in large part on speculation born out of a mixture facts, experience, acumen, etc. My issue with this is that it's gone beyond speculation to be presented as fact and not only that, harsh critcism is wielded against the FO, the manager, the coaches and even the owner based on that speculation. I'm not the only one that thinks that but that's irrelevant. More people, even a majority of people, believing one way doesn't mean they're position is right. 

[Lifetime]

LT - we just differ on whether or not it's speculation.  By definition: Speculation is the forming of a theory without firm evidence.  The writers have firm evidence in the testimony of those close to the situations within the Angels organization.  You dispute that as evidence.  You want a confession or a video or something that's not available and since it's not available - what they say isn't good enough for you.  Some of us don't think that way.  It's time to move on.

OK, let's look at that evidence TG. Do you know exactly what influence and involvement Arte had in the acquisitions of Pujols, Hamilton or even Wells. Do you know the level of involvement and agreement with those acquisitions Dipoto and even Scioscia had? Do you know for a fact that those acquisitions were Arte's from conception and that he forced them on Dipoto and Scioscia despite their preference to move a different direction? 

[ten ocho recon scout]

IP (a few posts back),

I think you make verybfair point in regards to dipoto vs stoneman. That said, while both inherited flawed teams, theybarent the same. Stoneman had a weak farm, yes, but his mlb core was very uoing and mostly inder club control. He had basically one glaring hole, pitching. Dipoto had/has both.

On top of that, I'm sure stoneman was under far less pressure. Stoneman took over a team with low expectations. Dipoto came in to a mess and was tasked with fixing it overnight. And that's without morno pushing certain things.

As far as the articles and speculation degarding moreno. I've heard different versions. What we know (if the stories are true) is that moreno personally called albert, and albert signed with us the next day (after asking God if 250 with us was better than 190 with the cards). Moreno (not dipoto) was also the one who went personally to hamiltons house last winter.

I'd say that's pretty telling.

Also, speaking from unnamed sources, I can say that arte was not only behind pujols, but that there's a lot more behind it than has been reported.

As far as wells, I've heard more thsn a few different versions. Not sure I believe the story that arte threatened to fire reagins, but who knows? But from very reliable people, I've been told getting wells wasn't necessarily the goal. And the 'goal' wasn't so much driven by arte as it was someone else.

Either way, dipoto is not above finger pointing, but he should also be viewed as someone in a tight spot. Few trade chips (which we blew on grienke), a small window to succeed, and likely any long term plan being pushed aside for the win now plan coming from upstairs.

[Lifetime]

As far as the articles and speculation degarding moreno. I've heard different versions. What we know (if the stories are true) is that moreno personally called albert, and albert signed with us the next day (after asking God if 250 with us was better than 190 with the cards). Moreno (not dipoto) was also the one who went personally to hamiltons house last winter.

I'd say that's pretty telling.

Curious scout, what does that tell you?

 

Also, speaking from unnamed sources, I can say that arte was not only behind pujols, but that there's a lot more behind it than has been reported.

So, aside from Arte being behind signing Pujols, which by the way as an owner making that large of an investment he'd have to be in a significant way, what is the a lot more behind it your sources revealed?

[tdawg87]

Curious scout, what does that tell you?

 

Why do you always ask questions like this to rhetorical statements that have a completely obvious answer?

[tennischmp]

Why do you always ask questions like this to rhetorical statements that have a completely obvious answer?

Just setting his prey up for the kill. Like watching the Animal Chanel.

[Lifetime]

 Why do you always ask questions like this to rhetorical statements that have a completely obvious answer?

Because I'd like to know what's behind that comment. This is a discussion right? 

 

Why do you  feel the need to post a snide comment about it? 

[tdawg87]

It's incredibly obvious "what's behind that comment" and you know it. You just want to start yet another argument because it gets your nethers all tingly.

[nate]

Lifetime, you have argued here very very strongly as if you are stating fact and then when you are called on it you pull the "just my opinion card."  In fact you have done it in this thread.  Cut the bullshit man.

[nate]

The fact is, your assertion that Arte had nothing to do with it is no different than ours that he did.

 

In fact, saying something publicly has nothing to do with fact.  Considering there is far more evidence that Arte was involved than he wasn't, you are the one grasping for straws and turning speculation to fact.

[Lifetime]

It's incredibly obvious "what's behind that comment" and you know it. You just want to start yet another argument because it gets your nethers all tingly.

Go pound sand tdawg. There's no reason for this bullshit exchange from you.