Loyalty

[Angelsfan1984]

7 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Today was the day T.G. came out as socialist.

Threadworthy? Where were you the day TG=bernie sanders 

[REDneck]

The bottom line with this situation is that Arte was just outclassed by a first class organization that wins a lot of baseball games and hasn't devolved into a shit show like the Angels have.

[mmc]

7 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

I don’t think there’s been a lack of effort to put a winning team on the field. It just hasn’t worked out yet

The team refused to spend to the tax until Ohtani was 4 months away from leaving and they didn’t have a choice.  If that can’t be considered a lack of effort I don’t know what can.

6 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

Also MMC, you’re cool but the trout doesn’t give a shit about winning comment is truly pants-on-head retarded. That drive to win is what makes them into the players they are

I’m sure the potential to have a lucrative career playing a sport counts for something 

[Torridd]

53 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

Ohtani got the most money and the best opportunity to win. He would have been an idiot to turn that down. 
 

fans get caught up in the emotional side of it all. That man, made the best decision he could for himself, his legacy and his future family. You can’t judge him for that. He gave it all he had as an Angel and it didn’t work out. That’s ok.  Hope he wins another mvp and the dodgers get swept in the 1st round. 

I disagree. I don't think he would be an idiot. It's a choice. I don't fault him for it but if he got less money for a more comfortable spot, I'd think that was okay too.

[Stradling]

35 minutes ago, mmc said:

Nah I’m aight, I’m sure with his half a billion dollars he can take it

I like that how much money someone makes is the qualifier for if you can say stupid shit about them. He makes a lot so you can have stupid opinions about him. It says much more about you than him. 

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

I like that how much money someone makes is the qualifier for if you can say stupid shit about them. He makes a lot so you can have stupid opinions about him. It says much more about you than him. 

Nah, no player from Trout, to Ohtani, to some AAA scrub is exempt from criticism.  His money just makes it all the more funny that someone like you thinks he should exempt from it since he’s clearly doing alright in life

[Stradling]

1 minute ago, mmc said:

Nah, no player from Trout, to Ohtani, to some AAA scrub is exempt from criticism.  His money just makes it all the more funny that someone like you thinks he should exempt from it since he’s clearly doing alright in life

He isn’t exempt but you are the one who brought up money as a qualifier. You have a stupid opinion, many of us have told you it’s stupid. 

[mmc]

1 minute ago, Stradling said:

many of us have told you it’s stupid. 

This truly means the world to me

[Angelsfan1984]

9 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I disagree. I don't think he would be an idiot. It's a choice. I don't fault him for it but if he got less money for a more comfortable spot, I'd think that was okay too.

You’re assuming he will be uncomfortable in LA…he may love it. 

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

We heard it over and over again. Shohei Ohtani wants to win.  No kidding.  Every player wants to win.  Mike Trout wants to win. The difference between Trout and Ohtani is that Trout wants to win as an Angel. Ohtani just wants to win, period.

There’s a difference.

Trout wants to be a part of building a winner.  Ohtani wants to join one.

We also heard over and over again that Ohtani isn’t necessarily about the money.  Well, I see about 700 million reasons to think that isn’t necessarily true.  I’m not judging Ohtani for taking the biggest contract in the history of professional sports.  Heck, no.  More power to him. 

But… in the words of Jered Weaver, “how much do you really need?”

Loyalty. 

Weaver will always be beloved for it.

When Tim Salmon approached free agency for the first time, he told his agent to take the first offer from the Angels.  Salmon was rewarded for his loyalty with a 2002 World Series championship and became the most beloved player in franchise history.

Trout showed his loyalty when he also resigned with the Angels. He could have left.  Most around baseball thought he would.  He didn’t. 

Loyalty.

Salmon, Weaver and Trout’s loyalty isn’t lost on me.  I don’t think it’s lost on most fans.  There’s something special about players who come up through the organization and stay with the organization throughout most, if not all of their career.

Ohtani leaving, makes me appreciate Trout’s loyalty more than ever. 

I have enjoyed every moment of Ohtani’s time with the Angels. I believe he will go down in history as the greatest player of all time.  Losing him is disappointing.

I can now understand what Cardinal fans must have felt like when Albert Pujols left to sign with the Angels.  I understand how disappointed Twins fans must have been to see Torii Hunter leave as well. 

Then again – at least those two guys didn’t leave for a division or cross-time rival.

That’s the thing.  It isn’t so much that Ohtani left the Angels. It’s that he left the Angels for the Dodgers.  The stinking Dodgers.  It’s kind of a slap in the face to Angel fans. The same fans that loved and supported him through his first six years in major league baseball.  The same fans who have lived in the shadow of Dodger fans for years.

It also stings to know he asked not to be traded during this past season because he wanted to try and win with the Angels, only to turn around and head up the 5 freeway to Chavez Ravine when it didn’t work out. 

No loyalty there.

That's also not lost on me. 

Again, the main take away for me isn't so much about Ohtani.  It's about an increased appreciation for Mike Trout and his loyalty to the Angels and their fans.  It's a rare thing this day and age, especially in professional sports.

@T.G. I agree with a lot of what you had to say here. Well done.

Guys, it's OK to have different opinions on this topic, but let's not resort to name calling and disrespect toward each other.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

600 mil with the Angels or Blue Jays and 700 mil with the Dodgers is a lot of money.

So I don't think we'll ever know, because Ohtani asked to keep things quiet. But I'm curious to know what we offered. What other teams offered, etc 

[Chuck]

I was thinking earlier to myself, what would @Lou think about Ohtani leaving via free agency to the Dodgers (a team he hated) for 700 million dollars. 

I think you all know. 

[Taylor]

Arte probably thought he could convince Ohtani to stay by giving him a firm handshake.

[Jay]

The notion that fans should expect any sort of loyalty from a player is silly. Players come and go. They have to look out for themselves.

It was a fantasy to think that Ohtani would be loyal to the Angels.

Also labeling Trout's actions as loyalty is equally silly. He elected to stay in Anaheim for various reasons but loyalty isn't one of them.

Edited December 10, 2023 by Jay

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Arte probably thought he could convince Ohtani to stay by giving him a firm handshake.

Hand job at least.

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Ohtani didn't owe us any sort of loyalty. He has made it known that winning is his #1 priority. There is no need to drag Trout's name through the mud for wanting to be with the Angels for the majority of, if not all, of his career. Trout let it be known that he thought spending an entire career with one team is something special, like Jeter did. 

Ohtani gave us 6 LOYAL years where he put it his body on the line and gave us a great chance to win. He fulfilled his loyalty to the organization and the fan base. He never requested a trade, never acted disgruntled, never disrespected the organization. Ohtani was loyal to the Angels. He earned the right to elect free agency and control the remainder of his career. 

Thank you for your loyalty, Ohtani. 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

No doubt Trout wants to win, I just don’t believe it’s that important to him in the grand scheme of his career.  Other things like comfort, stability, and money clearly take precedence to him.  He has every right to live his life/conduct his career that way but there’s absolutely nothing about the guy that screams “this guy badly wants to win”

it's pretty amazing to me that you've come to this conclusion about him in spite of never personally talking to him or seeing any quotes from him indicating this is how he feels.

[Halodays]

1 hour ago, mmc said:

Yep, it’s a two way street…. If you want to get upset about a lack of “loyalty” from Ohtani, you should be equally upset that Arte refused to adequately support Ohtani during his tenure here by spending as much as he could and surpassing the tax

That’s quite the conundrum. How do you spend to go over the tax threshold and then have money you need to re-sign Ohtani? 

[UndertheHalo]

I respect Shohei Ohtani a lot and the various things I’ve said here over the last year were like 99% in jest.  I appreciate what he did for the Angels. He’s a great player and a historic player and all that is undeniable.  Also, now that he’s not an Angel anymore I don’t give a shit about him - at all - bye-bye sweetheart.  
 

Trout is our guy, he could have got the money (or more) from like 10 other teams.  He stuck with the Angels.  It’s seems bottomlessly retarded to be a big brained asshole and pretend like Trout has been anything other than an all time Angel great dedicated to the club and the fans.  He wanted to win with us and he signed his name on the line to do that. Yes, not that painful a decision to make given the compensation and so cal but he could have made other decisions.  What’s the point of being contrarian against those obvious points.  
 

I hope he can manage to be healthy.  I hope the Angels stop being dumb assholes about putting a major league team on the field.  This means hopefully they decide to behave like other teams that are way more successful.  Specifically they don’t use dumb bullshit like Troy Percival not liking iPads as an exuse to not invest in technology.  Hire more scouts and data analysts.  Bring in a lot of coaches and advisors.  Just match what other teams do.  Show some kind of attempt to behave like an organization that prioritizes winning.  They owe it to the fans who spend money and time to give a shit about the Angels and they also owe it to Mike Trout so he doesn’t have to catch this dumb horseshit anymore.  
 

also again, because this needs to be emphasized.  Mike needs to figure out how to stay on the field.  End of rant.  <jerk off motion> 

Edited December 10, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[Tank]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

The notion that fans should expect any sort of loyalty from a player is silly. Players come and go. They have to look out for themselves.

It was a fantasy to think that Ohtani would be loyal to the Angels.

Also labeling Trout's actions as loyalty is equally silly. He elected to stay in Anaheim for various reasons but loyalty isn't one of them.

i find your view to be confusing to be perfectly honest.

trout could have gone anywhere for a brinks truck worth of cash, but chose to stay in anaheim with a team that had made the playoffs once before he signed his huge contract, a contract he signed a full year before he hit free agency IIRC. that seems like a pretty textbook definition of loyalty to me. 

[mmc]

7 minutes ago, Tank said:

it's pretty amazing to me that you've come to this conclusion about him in spite of never personally talking to him or seeing any quotes from him indicating this is how he feels.

I could use this counter to those of you who seem certain I’m wrong.  Just telling you the sense I get from the guy based on how he conducts himself and the decisions he makes

[Stradling]

50 minutes ago, Jay said:

The notion that fans should expect any sort of loyalty from a player is silly. Players come and go. They have to look out for themselves.

It was a fantasy to think that Ohtani would be loyal to the Angels.

Also labeling Trout's actions as loyalty is equally silly. He elected to stay in Anaheim for various reasons but loyalty isn't one of them.

How do you know?  

[m0nkey]

How do any of us know anything about how any one truly feels/thinks?

[ettin]

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think the entire concept of "loyalty" in professional sports is kind of silly.

Perhaps the word should be "commitment" or something similar.

The whole concept of free agency is completely at odds with the concept of "loyalty", I agree, but I guess (and maybe True Grich would agree) maybe it is appreciation of commitment to one organization and not just pursuing the highest dollar total that fans like and love. Fans love to see "their guy" staying on the team and in the same uniform. It really builds loyalty from the fans, actually, not the other way around, I suppose, and maybe that is more of what TG was driving at possibly.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

2 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I think the entire concept of "loyalty" in professional sports is kind of silly.

Agreed, ownership isn't loyal and sometimes neither are the players. It takes an extremely unique circumstance and both parties need to actually want to proceed in the growth of the organization.

In reality, Ohtani wasn't drafted here, he didnt come up through the Minor league development side. So, his needs are different money and a youth building farm system that develops talent for either trade to improve the MLB team or MLB team continued growth from youth coming up through the system.

He will be there longer than Freeman and probably a few years after Betts. So, his needs is growth of the Minor League system and Mucho Dinero!