Admittedly, total emotional post here...

[Wisconsin27]

We have two of the greatest players who have ever played the game on our team.  Think about that.  Kids and adults from all over the globe have dawned a mit and bat from the early ages of life and among the final top 20 in all of time, we have two of the best to every do it.  Blessed.

Is it too much to ask they produce when the moment calls for it?  There has been numerous times over the past few weeks (or longer?) where Mike or Shohei have had an opportunity to strongly impact the game's result and they have come up short.  If it weren't for the fact that I'm an Angels fan and am always willing to dismiss their struggles, I'd place blame.  However, that almost seems sacreligious.  Can't do that.

Tonight, like many, many others, both players had an opportunity to "come through" and impact the game.  Both came up short.  I get we as fans we don't like to point the fingers at our future HOF's.  But man, it's getting tiresome.  I just want to say, "F-, make an impact!"

Tonight's game got to me.  I get it.  Matt didn't step on the plate, Mickey f-d up, etc.  But be one of the best players on the planet when the situation calls for it.  It's baseball, shit happens.  Be the difference.

With regards to Shohei in particular, sometimes it feels like we might not sign him because he wants to play for a winner.  Hell, I get that.  But that line of thinking places the entire burden of the team's success on everyone else.  How about making an impact on your team to drive them to success?  

I know I'm emotional after tonight's debacle.  I get we can rightfully place blame on a number of folks....Phil, Matt, Moniak, and others.  But how would the game have gone if our stars had performed just a bit better when the situation called for it?  Would all of the other shit even happened as it did?
 

Rant over.

[Swordsman78]

10 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

We have two of the greatest players who have ever played the game on our team.  Think about that.  Kids and adults from all over the globe have dawned a mit and bat from the early ages of life and among the final top 20 in all of time, we have two of the best to every do it.  Blessed.

Is it too much to ask they produce when the moment calls for it?  There has been numerous times over the past few weeks (or longer?) where Mike or Shohei have had an opportunity to strongly impact the game's result and they have come up short.  If it weren't for the fact that I'm an Angels fan and am always willing to dismiss their struggles, I'd place blame.  However, that almost seems sacreligious.  Can't do that.

Tonight, like many, many others, both players had an opportunity to "come through" and impact the game.  Both came up short.  I get we as fans we don't like to point the fingers at our future HOF's.  But man, it's getting tiresome.  I just want to say, "F-, make an impact!"

Tonight's game got to me.  I get it.  Matt didn't step on the plate, Mickey f-d up, etc.  But be one of the best players on the planet when the situation calls for it.  It's baseball, shit happens.  Be the difference.

With regards to Shohei in particular, sometimes it feels like we might not sign him because he wants to play for a winner.  Hell, I get that.  But that line of thinking places the entire burden of the team's success on everyone else.  How about making an impact on your team to drive them to success?  

I know I'm emotional after tonight's debacle.  I get we can rightfully place blame on a number of folks....Phil, Matt, Moniak, and others.  But how would the game have gone if our stars had performed just a bit better when the situation called for it?  Would all of the other shit even happened as it did?
 

Rant over.

This rant is on point.  Without checking, it just feels like the bottom of the order has generated more RBI's than the top.   We all hope that Trout and Ohtani would be clutch like Reggie and Mantle, but they have not shown the aptitude.

As many guys have pointed out, the team average with RISP (especially in high leverage situations) is sub par.  Neither Shohei or Trout seem to bother pitchers with the game on the line.   The two probably have more K's than RBi's.

 I do hope the Angels can keep Ohtani, but only if he agrees to sign and not become a free agent.   If he hasn't signed by the trade deadline, then he should be traded to some east coast team.

His true value is probably the same contract Trout got.  Nothing more.  But I am sure that won't stop teams from over paying.

Ohtani hanging the threat of FA over the Angels head is a distraction.

 

 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Swordsman78

[cals]

I’ve said before, this team isn’t perfect but let’s not act like Shohei is perfect himself.  I want him on this team but he’s had lots of opportunities to change a game offensively and fails.  I suppose that’s the nature of the game, but if the team totally sucks and you are awesome then I understand the argument.  But if the team is borderline playoffs and you are failing too when most needed?  

Edited May 28, 2023 by cals

[Angel Oracle]

The question still can’t be answered yet anyway.

Will Moreno finally go over the tax threshold in order to re-sign Ohtani?

[T-angel]

Something tells me Arte didn't sell the team because he didn't get the offer he wanted and he saw an opportunity to still make money on the Angels this year. I would imagine the Japanese advertisement money is quite significant. If they traded Shohei in the middle of the season that would all go away, immediately. All japanese broadcasting and advertising money would move to the new team. All the Angels have to do is stay close to a wild card and Arte should still reap the benefits by keeping Shohei. 

This is my opinion, but, everyone not associated with or are fans of the Angels want Shohei to be on a different team. So much so, the East Coast Biased sports media repeatedly highlights it and opines on it.

I say F... them.

I'm keeping Shohei no matter what. Because he's a part of Angel history and the Angel Family. He chose us over everyone else. We should choose him over anyone else. We offer him the most competitive offer to remain part of the family that we can at the end of the year, and we leave it up to him again to choose. If he chooses to go elsewhere, we will take the draft pick, and move on. We say farewell, good fortune, to a heckuva standup guy. And that we're proud of you and honored that you chose us to be part of your journey. 

[Swordsman78]

Agreed that the media any people invested in other teams are doing all they can to hype Ohtani price out of the Angels price range.

 

[UndertheHalo]

36 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

The question still can’t be answered yet anyway.

Will Moreno finally go over the tax threshold in order to re-sign Ohtani?

That’s not the question.  The question is whether Arte will pay the money necessary to build a team around Ohtani if he’s able to get him to sign.  It’s pointless to keep him around if he’s not going to be willing to consistently spend a good bit more than he is now.  

Edited May 28, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[ScottT]

Lol

[ScottT]

Mickey Moniak blew their chances of winning

To a lesser degree, Thaiss.

Stfu

[AngelFanInTheATL]

4 hours ago, Swordsman78 said:

Agreed that the media any people invested in other teams are doing all they can to hype Ohtani price out of the Angels price range.

 

Always the media's fault with the small-minded people.

And if the media ignored Shohei, you'd complain about that too.  "Aaron Judge/Mookie Betts/Yankee/Dodger bias" or some BS.

 

[Jason]

Trout and Ohtani are surrounded by a team of players playing at a mediocre level. It is plausible to think that they do have a negative impact on them as well. Trout is no longer the player he once was and Ohtani’s greatest strength is his pitching and he has been their best starter. I do not think they should resign Ohtani for what he is going to command. Maybe Arte is willing to spend on building a team but he can’t make those players go out and perform as expected. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by Jason

[Chico]

In order for this team to progress, Arte needs to go. He has been the main person making all the bad decisions to hamstring this team. 

[steveuk]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Trout and Ohtani are surrounded by a team of players playing at a mediocre level. It is plausible to think that they do have a negative impact on them as well. Trout is no longer the player he once was and Ohtani’s greatest strength is his pitching and he has been their best starter. I do not think they should resign Ohtani for what he is going to command. Maybe Arte is willing to spend on building a team but he can’t make those players go out and perform as expected. 

People will criticise Arte if he doesn't get Ohtani signed up at 50m a year and yet, if the other pieces on the team are mediocre, it's going to stay that way if he commits over a third of payroll on just two players. 

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, steveuk said:

People will criticise Arte if he doesn't get Ohtani signed up at 50m a year and yet, if the other pieces on the team are mediocre, it's going to stay that way if he commits over a third of payroll on just two players. 

That’s my whole point. The team has way too many needs to just put all their eggs into one basket 

[fan_since79]

We're not going deep in the postseason until we get better pitching (starters and bullpen), play better fundamental baseball, a manager who is competent, and develop a winning attitude. Oh, and a new owner.

We're a .500 team at best right now and probably destined for 3rd or 4th place in a good division.

82-80 when all is said and done, and that's optimistic.

[Jeff Fletcher]

10 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

How about making an impact on your team to drive them to success?  

For the record, when we asked him after the end of last season about the Angels losing he said “I have to be better for us to win.”

[stormngt]

10 hours ago, Wisconsin27 said:

We have two of the greatest players who have ever played the game on our team.  Think about that.  Kids and adults from all over the globe have dawned a mit and bat from the early ages of life and among the final top 20 in all of time, we have two of the best to every do it.  Blessed.

Is it too much to ask they produce when the moment calls for it?  There has been numerous times over the past few weeks (or longer?) where Mike or Shohei have had an opportunity to strongly impact the game's result and they have come up short.  If it weren't for the fact that I'm an Angels fan and am always willing to dismiss their struggles, I'd place blame.  However, that almost seems sacreligious.  Can't do that.

Tonight, like many, many others, both players had an opportunity to "come through" and impact the game.  Both came up short.  I get we as fans we don't like to point the fingers at our future HOF's.  But man, it's getting tiresome.  I just want to say, "F-, make an impact!"

Tonight's game got to me.  I get it.  Matt didn't step on the plate, Mickey f-d up, etc.  But be one of the best players on the planet when the situation calls for it.  It's baseball, shit happens.  Be the difference.

With regards to Shohei in particular, sometimes it feels like we might not sign him because he wants to play for a winner.  Hell, I get that.  But that line of thinking places the entire burden of the team's success on everyone else.  How about making an impact on your team to drive them to success?  

I know I'm emotional after tonight's debacle.  I get we can rightfully place blame on a number of folks....Phil, Matt, Moniak, and others.  But how would the game have gone if our stars had performed just a bit better when the situation called for it?  Would all of the other shit even happened as it did?
 

Rant over.

Lets be fair,  does Ortiz and Manny fail this often for Boston?

[arch stanton]

The only thing they failed were drug tests 

[stormngt]

The complaints are very tiring:

1. Arte wont build around Trout & Ohtani:

He signed Rendon.  And he has been hurt and gave us nothing.   He signed Renfroe. Urshela, and Drury all have contributed this year.  

Few expected Walsh to be injured, and Ward to be this bad.

2. Pitching sucks.  Entering the season our pitching was expected to be a strength.  Sandavol and Detmer has underachieving.   Anderson was expected to be a mid rotation pitcher but is more ofa backend pitcher.  

3.  We are losing because we are beating ourselves.  We must have given away 10-12 games.  If we werent beating ourselves we would have one of the best records.

4.  And like it or not, Trout and Ohtabi are not carrying the team.  Yes they are producing Hall of fame careers.  However theyvare currentky not carrying the team.

[Blarg]

9 hours ago, ScottT said:

Mickey Moniak blew their chances of winning

To a lesser degree, Thaiss.

Stfu

Thais at least came in as a pinch hitter and scored two runners. Ohtani went 0-4 and erased Trout twice, once on a fielders choice, the other on a double play. Ohtani was crap at the plate the last couple games so you really can't point your finger at the rookies, Moniak and Neto, going 0-8 when Ohtani and Renfroe went 0-9.  These are rookies, both probably should be still in AAA honing skills rather than trying to bail out a roster of failures and an IL Queen. Dropping the blame on them when the supposed best player since Babe Ruth hasn't done squat at the plate is a little hero worship over reality. 

[Swordsman78]

5 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Thais at least came in as a pinch hitter and scored two runners. Ohtani went 0-4 and erased Trout twice, once on a fielders choice, the other on a double play. Ohtani was crap at the plate the alst couple games so you really can't point your finger at the rookies, Moniak and Neto, going 0-8 when Ohtani and Renfroe went 0-9.  These are rookies, both probably should be still in AAA honing skills rather than trying to bail out a roster of failures and an IL Queen. Dropping the blame on them when the supposed best player since Babe Ruth hasn't done squat at the plate is a little hero worship over reality. 

 The poor offense (especially by the 2-5 players is putting unfair pressure on every other aspect of the game to be perfect, or the game is lost.

[BTH]

10 hours ago, cals said:

I’ve said before, this team isn’t perfect but let’s not act like Shohei is perfect himself.

I agree with this.

Everyone loves to focus on the positive aspects of Ohtani, and rightfully so, but you also can’t ignore the negative aspects. And you need to weigh that when deciding whether to give him $500 million.

For example, I think there is significant value given up:

• By him necessitating a 6-man rotation, where the Angels are forced to find one more competent starter than other teams and then use a lesser starter 20-25 times a season.
• When he clogs up the DH spot that they could be using to keep players fresh.

[mmc]

2 minutes ago, Trendon said:

• By him necessitating a 6-man rotation, where the Angels are forced to find one more competent starter than other teams and then use a lesser starter 20-25 times a season.

Does it necessitate it though, or is that just how we want to do it?  Would we really have any issues if we move to 5?

[BTH]

42 minutes ago, mmc said:

Does it necessitate it though, or is that just how we want to do it?  Would we really have any issues if we move to 5?

There hasn’t been any attempt or willingness shown by Ohtani to pitch every 4 days. Until that happens, they need to use a 6th starter whenever they don’t have an off day.

[gurn67]

When Vladdy was on this team, he was the guy you wanted at the plate at the most critical moment in the late innings. Maicer was really incredible at those times too. I can definitely say I haven't felt that way with Trout in several seasons.

When we've played other teams who have superstars, I'm always shocked when they don't come through in the clutch. With our superstars, I'm getting to the point where I'm shocked if they do.