OC Register: Angels Q&A: What is going to happen at the trade deadline?

[AngelsWin.com]

Once again, the Angels are enduring a disappointing season.

After this weekend’s three games in Houston, they will be exactly halfway through the regular season, and they’ll be under .500.

The extra wild-card playoff spot this year has given them slightly more hope than they would have otherwise. They also have both Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani performing at a high level, a confluence they’ve never enjoyed this far into a season.

Overall, though, the team definitely needs some help, which is why our request for questions yielded a large chunk of queries about trades, so let’s start there.

Q: When do you think the Angels will start making some trades? There are some pretty clear weak spots on the roster and it feels like not much is being done about it. — @michelekiyoko

A: Don’t hold your breath for the Angels to make any deals that will dramatically improve their prospects for 2022. I’m sure General Manager Perry Minasian would love to be able to bring in some difference-making talent before the Aug. 2 deadline, but there are a few reasons why it’s going to be tough to do any better than incremental upgrades.

While the expanded playoff field gives the Angels a little more hope, it does the same for other fringy teams that would otherwise be sellers. So the players on those teams who might be trade candidates now might stay put, or else their teams will want an exorbitant price to move them.

Among the teams that will definitely be sellers, there just aren’t that many impactful players to be had, which means the cost for those players will be high.

Oakland A’s right-hander Frankie Montas and Cincinnati Reds right-hander Luis Castillo are the top starting pitchers, and then there’s a huge drop-off. Pretty much all of the contenders will be looking for starting pitching, so do you think the Angels are going to be able to outbid, say, the Dodgers for one of those arms? Remember, the Angels still have one of the thinnest farm systems in baseball.

Most of the relievers who ought to be available are also rentals: Colorado Rockies right-handers Daniel Bard and Alex Colome, Chicago Cubs righty Mychal Givens, Arizona Diamondbacks righty Ian Kennedy, Washington Nationals righty Carl Edwards Jr. and Detroit Tigers righty Michael Fulmer. Again, the teams that are much more securely in the race than the Angels are going to be bidding more fiercely for those pitchers.

Cubs righty Chris Martin, Miami Marlins righty Anthony Bass and Tigers lefty Andrew Chafin all are under control for one more year, so they could be more appealing to the Angels. Of course, they’d also cost more. (Fun fact: Martin and Bass were both teammates of Ohtani in Japan.)

As for position players, the Angels really need an infielder and the best one is Reds third baseman Brandon Drury. Other players like Nationals second baseman Cesar Hernandez, Seattle Mariners utility man Adam Frazier and Kansas City Royals second baseman Whit Merrifield also might be available, but none of them are having particularly good years. Of that group, only Merrifield is under control beyond this season.

Q: Jeff, think the Angels will be sellers?  If so, ‘who’ do they have that anyone would want? — @ninedeeniner

A: Here’s the other side of the coin. If it’s too difficult for the Angels to buy, do they sell? That’s tricky too. The Angels have shown in the past they’ll only trade players who are impending free agents, because they don’t want to trade anyone who could help them when they’re trying to win again in the following season.

Just about the only guy who fits that description and has some value is Noah Syndergaard. (Archie Bradley could have also, but his trip over the railing on Sunday will have him out till past the deadline.) Although Syndergaard has certainly pitched well enough that he could help a team, his issue is that he barely pitched in the previous two years, and he’s been pitching this year on extra rest all season. How confident would a contender be that he could fit into their five-man rotation and pitch deep into October? And they’d have no control over him beyond that.

Then there is the question of Trout and Ohtani. This topic deserves a much more in-depth treatment than this, but the short answer is that I can’t see the Angels trading either one of them. And even if they did, it definitely wouldn’t be in the middle of the season, because it would take too much time for the Angels to analyze the return.

Ostensibly, the reason to trade either one of them would be to avoid having too much money tied up in a few players. Yes, it’s difficult to build a winning team that way, but it’s also difficult to build a winning team with a bunch of prospects you don’t really know from another team, or by spending the money you aren’t paying Trout and Ohtani on other free agents. They’ve spent plenty of money so far, and that hasn’t worked.

The Angels’ main problem is not lack of spending. It’s poor development of their young players. That’s a whole other topic.

Q: What portion of heaven and earth need to be moved for (Michael) Stefanic to get his call up? — @aaronburkart

A: Stefanic was out with a quadriceps injury when Anthony Rendon got hurt, or he probably would have gotten his chance then. Stefanic just returned to the Triple-A lineup on Tuesday. The Angels have another vacancy with Matt Duffy on the injured list, so if Stefanic performs well at Triple-A, I assume he’ll get a shot soon.

Q: What do you think their plan is with (Jo) Adell? Hope he looks good in Triple-A and trade, develop and call up at some point or ?? — @mikeyAngelfan

A: I don’t think the Angels need to have any “plan” other than waiting and seeing what happens with him. If Adell makes the improvements he needs to make, then the Angels can play him in the major leagues or trade him for something valuable. If he doesn’t, they can’t do either. At the moment, Adell is still having issues offensively and defensively, although the Angels insist he’s working hard at fixing them and he has the right attitude.

It’s possible they’d trade him before the deadline, but they’d likely be moving him at a low point in his value, which isn’t ideal.

Also, Adell is 23 and he still has options, so there’s no urgency to know this minute what he’s going to become.

Q: What is the solution to the fifth and sixth (spots in the) rotation for the remainder of this year? — @angelsnumber9

A: Good question. The Angels have shuffled through Reid Detmers (4.66 ERA), José Suarez (4.36), Chase Silseth (5.23), Kenny Rosenberg (4.22) and Jhonathan Diaz (2.93), with varying degrees of success.

Although they’d love for one or two of those pitchers to be consistently good enough to separate themselves, they can also just keep using all of them, allowing them to pile up innings and experience that would help the team make decisions going forward.

The only potential issue is that the new collective bargaining agreement has an annual limit of five times a player can be optioned. The count started on May 2, this year. Since then Rosenberg has been optioned three times, and Suarez and Diaz have been optioned twice apiece. Silseth and Detmers have each been optioned once.

Q: You think if the Angels are out of contention at the end of the year they’ll activate Rendon so he won’t serve his suspension next year? — @LarryFranklin04

A: Nice try, but Major League Baseball wouldn’t allow a team to activate a player from the injured list without some medical documentation certifying that he was able to play.

View the full article

[beatlesrule]

Hopefully, this article will show fans that aren't on this site that it will be another losing season for the Angels and that management from Arte on down doesn't know how to put together a winning team. It's the same thing with this team year after year. Like Jeff's numbers article showed, Arte hires people that just aren't very good at their job and gets involved with signing the wrong players. This ORG has been a mess for over 10 years now with no signs of improvement. Like the article stated, their farm is STILL bad. They never learn their lesson. This team is just ranges from bad to mediocre to average every year.

[Jeff Fletcher]

58 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

Like the article stated, their farm is STILL bad. They never learn their lesson.

They know it’s bad. And they’re trying to fix it. But the only quick fix would be a total blowup rebuild (trading guys like Ward, Walsh and Sandoval). Otherwise, it takes time even if you do it perfectly, and even more time if you don’t. 

[Angel Oracle]

Drury is a FA after the season.

Kyle Farmer could be a better target, controlled through 2024.

Still 33 days to the trade deadline.

There’s plenty of time to see if Rengifo continues to improve, some time to see how Fletcher looks if coming off the DL right after the ASB, and some more time to see if Squid can finally find some hitting momentum.

[79CAAman]

Is it possible to trade for a hitting coach?

[beatlesrule]

42 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They know it’s bad. And they’re trying to fix it. But the only quick fix would be a total blowup rebuild (trading guys like Ward, Walsh and Sandoval). Otherwise, it takes time even if you do it perfectly, and even more time if you don’t. 

They've been trying to fix it for how long now? Since Arte doesn't believe in tanking or even mini fire sales, he clearly hasn't learned his lesson. If you aren't in contention, you are supposed to trade away guys you don't see in your long term plans and play for a better draft pick. Arte doesn't do that. He stays delusional and keeps his team mostly in tact even adding to it when he should be selling. It's quite clear his strategy doesn't work and he KEEPS doing it.

[Angels 1961]

In the 7th losing season with another major injury (Rendon) fans are frustrated. Angels a new direction as one they have been using is not working.

[Angels 1961]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They know it’s bad. And they’re trying to fix it. But the only quick fix would be a total blowup rebuild (trading guys like Ward, Walsh and Sandoval). Otherwise, it takes time even if you do it perfectly, and even more time if you don’t. 

If Ohtani and Trout traded why could you not keep Ward, Walsh and Sandoval? How does Tampa on a low budget seem to win most years? What are they doing that Angels could not do the same?

[Angels 1961]

6 hours ago, AngelsWin.com said:

Once again, the Angels are enduring a disappointing season.

After this weekend’s three games in Houston, they will be exactly halfway through the regular season, and they’ll be under .500.

The extra wild-card playoff spot this year has given them slightly more hope than they would have otherwise. They also have both Mike Trout and Shohei Ohtani performing at a high level, a confluence they’ve never enjoyed this far into a season.

Overall, though, the team definitely needs some help, which is why our request for questions yielded a large chunk of queries about trades, so let’s start there.

Q: When do you think the Angels will start making some trades? There are some pretty clear weak spots on the roster and it feels like not much is being done about it. — @michelekiyoko

A: Don’t hold your breath for the Angels to make any deals that will dramatically improve their prospects for 2022. I’m sure General Manager Perry Minasian would love to be able to bring in some difference-making talent before the Aug. 2 deadline, but there are a few reasons why it’s going to be tough to do any better than incremental upgrades.

While the expanded playoff field gives the Angels a little more hope, it does the same for other fringy teams that would otherwise be sellers. So the players on those teams who might be trade candidates now might stay put, or else their teams will want an exorbitant price to move them.

Among the teams that will definitely be sellers, there just aren’t that many impactful players to be had, which means the cost for those players will be high.

Oakland A’s right-hander Frankie Montas and Cincinnati Reds right-hander Luis Castillo are the top starting pitchers, and then there’s a huge drop-off. Pretty much all of the contenders will be looking for starting pitching, so do you think the Angels are going to be able to outbid, say, the Dodgers for one of those arms? Remember, the Angels still have one of the thinnest farm systems in baseball.

Most of the relievers who ought to be available are also rentals: Colorado Rockies right-handers Daniel Bard and Alex Colome, Chicago Cubs righty Mychal Givens, Arizona Diamondbacks righty Ian Kennedy, Washington Nationals righty Carl Edwards Jr. and Detroit Tigers righty Michael Fulmer. Again, the teams that are much more securely in the race than the Angels are going to be bidding more fiercely for those pitchers.

Cubs righty Chris Martin, Miami Marlins righty Anthony Bass and Tigers lefty Andrew Chafin all are under control for one more year, so they could be more appealing to the Angels. Of course, they’d also cost more. (Fun fact: Martin and Bass were both teammates of Ohtani in Japan.)

As for position players, the Angels really need an infielder and the best one is Reds third baseman Brandon Drury. Other players like Nationals second baseman Cesar Hernandez, Seattle Mariners utility man Adam Frazier and Kansas City Royals second baseman Whit Merrifield also might be available, but none of them are having particularly good years. Of that group, only Merrifield is under control beyond this season.

Q: Jeff, think the Angels will be sellers?  If so, ‘who’ do they have that anyone would want? — @ninedeeniner

A: Here’s the other side of the coin. If it’s too difficult for the Angels to buy, do they sell? That’s tricky too. The Angels have shown in the past they’ll only trade players who are impending free agents, because they don’t want to trade anyone who could help them when they’re trying to win again in the following season.

Just about the only guy who fits that description and has some value is Noah Syndergaard. (Archie Bradley could have also, but his trip over the railing on Sunday will have him out till past the deadline.) Although Syndergaard has certainly pitched well enough that he could help a team, his issue is that he barely pitched in the previous two years, and he’s been pitching this year on extra rest all season. How confident would a contender be that he could fit into their five-man rotation and pitch deep into October? And they’d have no control over him beyond that.

Then there is the question of Trout and Ohtani. This topic deserves a much more in-depth treatment than this, but the short answer is that I can’t see the Angels trading either one of them. And even if they did, it definitely wouldn’t be in the middle of the season, because it would take too much time for the Angels to analyze the return.

Ostensibly, the reason to trade either one of them would be to avoid having too much money tied up in a few players. Yes, it’s difficult to build a winning team that way, but it’s also difficult to build a winning team with a bunch of prospects you don’t really know from another team, or by spending the money you aren’t paying Trout and Ohtani on other free agents. They’ve spent plenty of money so far, and that hasn’t worked.

The Angels’ main problem is not lack of spending. It’s poor development of their young players. That’s a whole other topic.

Q: What portion of heaven and earth need to be moved for (Michael) Stefanic to get his call up? — @aaronburkart

A: Stefanic was out with a quadriceps injury when Anthony Rendon got hurt, or he probably would have gotten his chance then. Stefanic just returned to the Triple-A lineup on Tuesday. The Angels have another vacancy with Matt Duffy on the injured list, so if Stefanic performs well at Triple-A, I assume he’ll get a shot soon.

Q: What do you think their plan is with (Jo) Adell? Hope he looks good in Triple-A and trade, develop and call up at some point or ?? — @mikeyAngelfan

A: I don’t think the Angels need to have any “plan” other than waiting and seeing what happens with him. If Adell makes the improvements he needs to make, then the Angels can play him in the major leagues or trade him for something valuable. If he doesn’t, they can’t do either. At the moment, Adell is still having issues offensively and defensively, although the Angels insist he’s working hard at fixing them and he has the right attitude.

It’s possible they’d trade him before the deadline, but they’d likely be moving him at a low point in his value, which isn’t ideal.

Also, Adell is 23 and he still has options, so there’s no urgency to know this minute what he’s going to become.

Q: What is the solution to the fifth and sixth (spots in the) rotation for the remainder of this year? — @angelsnumber9

A: Good question. The Angels have shuffled through Reid Detmers (4.66 ERA), José Suarez (4.36), Chase Silseth (5.23), Kenny Rosenberg (4.22) and Jhonathan Diaz (2.93), with varying degrees of success.

Although they’d love for one or two of those pitchers to be consistently good enough to separate themselves, they can also just keep using all of them, allowing them to pile up innings and experience that would help the team make decisions going forward.

The only potential issue is that the new collective bargaining agreement has an annual limit of five times a player can be optioned. The count started on May 2, this year. Since then Rosenberg has been optioned three times, and Suarez and Diaz have been optioned twice apiece. Silseth and Detmers have each been optioned once.

Q: You think if the Angels are out of contention at the end of the year they’ll activate Rendon so he won’t serve his suspension next year? — @LarryFranklin04

A: Nice try, but Major League Baseball wouldn’t allow a team to activate a player from the injured list without some medical documentation certifying that he was able to play.

View the full article

How many teams could take on Mike Trout and his contract? Would halos get anything of value back?

[Jeff Fletcher]

2 hours ago, beatlesrule said:

If you aren't in contention, you are supposed to trade away guys you don't see in your long term plans and play for a better draft pick.

That’s hard to do when you have Mike Trout on your roster. 
 

It’s not the same as having Christian Yellich or Mookie Betts or Nolan Arenado.

You can’t trade Mike Trout. And you can’t trade Calhoun/Skaggs/Richards and leave Trout all by himself. 
 

I’ve written this a million times, but the Angels were stuck in a box because Trout’s ascension from “very good” to “HOFer” happened right at the same time the farm system bottomed.

[Jeff Fletcher]

33 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

If Ohtani and Trout traded why could you not keep Ward, Walsh and Sandoval? How does Tampa on a low budget seem to win most years? What are they doing that Angels could not do the same?

Because you won’t get enough players for Ohtani and Trout. Ohtani has one year left and Trout has 8 years left, and both of those extremes limit the return. 
 

What Tampa does is develop its young players. 
 

Edited June 30, 2022 by Jeff Fletcher

[Angels 1961]

41 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s hard to do when you have Mike Trout on your roster. 
 

It’s not the same as having Christian Yellich or Mookie Betts or Nolan Arenado.

You can’t trade Mike Trout. And you can’t trade Calhoun/Skaggs/Richards and leave Trout all by himself. 
 

I’ve written this a million times, but the Angels were stuck in a box because Trout’s ascension from “very good” to “HOFer” happened right at the same time the farm system bottomed.

So will it be same next year as they will need 3 starters and work in bullpen. What are percentage halos sign Ohtani this off season? Is it time for a rebuild?

[beatlesrule]

51 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

That’s hard to do when you have Mike Trout on your roster. 
 

It’s not the same as having Christian Yellich or Mookie Betts or Nolan Arenado.

You can’t trade Mike Trout. And you can’t trade Calhoun/Skaggs/Richards and leave Trout all by himself. 
 

I’ve written this a million times, but the Angels were stuck in a box because Trout’s ascension from “very good” to “HOFer” happened right at the same time the farm system bottomed.

They've had Trout for 10 years now. That's more than enough time to put a winning roster around him. Arte and company are just inept at doing so. Trout signed an extension though so he must be okay with all the ineptness.

[Stradling]

40 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

They've had Trout for 10 years now. That's more than enough time to put a winning roster around him. Arte and company are just inept at doing so. Trout signed an extension though so he must be okay with all the ineptness.

You should keep saying the same thing over and over and over again. It’s fresh every single time. 

[IheartLA]

I think we match up well with the Reds. A guy like Drury would be great for us and if you go by what teams have given for a few months of a good hitter (Bryant, Baez) in the past few years it's basically been nothing. We only need a 3B for the rest of this year anyways since Rendon will be back. I wonder if we could pull a Dodgers2021 and do a Castillo/Drury swap like they did with Scherzer/Turner.

Both those players are better than the Reds duo but the Nats got Ruiz/Gray which gives us a baseline.  Offer something like Adell + one of Detmers/Suarez and see. The trade calculator online has us coming out ahead in that scenario but I think it's a start. Bauchman is off limits but I'd be ok with almost anyone else being open for discussion.

 

[Angelsjunky]

I think Minasian should dangle Walsh. He's a solid player, and a contender in need of a bat might give up a solid prospect or two, especially considering he's under club control for three more years. I'm not convinced that MacKinnon or Stefanic couldn't provide similar offense, making Walsh expendable.

[Wisconsin27]

Beatlesrule,

1.  Why do you stick with it?  It sounds like you've had enough to move on.

2.  I hope your anger is focused on Arte.  You appear to blame the whole organization over decisions that Arte makes.  It's not a secret that many upcoming GM's had little interest in working for Arte.  I hope that is where you are laying your blame as opposed to the organization as a whole.  Everything starts at the top in any organization.  I just hope that you aren't lumping it all together at a time when the focus of the issue is clear.

 

 

[CaliAngel]

8 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

They know it’s bad. And they’re trying to fix it. But the only quick fix would be a total blowup rebuild (trading guys like Ward, Walsh and Sandoval). Otherwise, it takes time even if you do it perfectly, and even more time if you don’t. 

Something is wrong with us developing talent. Almost nobody we bring up performs. They've had 8 years now since our last playoff appearance, and that should have been plenty of time for us "cycle through" a generation of players and to rebuild and turn it around, but we have not seen any improvement. If anything, it's gotten worse.

Somebody doesn't know how to do their job growing our young talent to bring them up to the MLB level. Or somebody who is selecting talent doesn't know what talent is. 

I feel like if we were to do the same thing we've already talked about 5 years ago regarding these problems, and marked today June 30th 2022 as the start date to "give them a couple years for a rebuild" I'm not confident we wouldn't be in the same situation we are now. 

Not picking on your post or towards you Jeff, just remarking on the situation in general. 

It's becoming unbearably frustrating and the only thing I can think is that there's somebody somewhere (or maybe it's a multitude of people) in our development team that has been doing their job wrong for way too long. 

[Dtwncbad]

10 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I think Minasian should dangle Walsh. He's a solid player, and a contender in need of a bat might give up a solid prospect or two, especially considering he's under club control for three more years. I'm not convinced that MacKinnon or Stefanic couldn't provide similar offense, making Walsh expendable.

So trade away a solid, cost-controlled player for a prospect that would maybe develop into a solid, cost-controlled player in a couple of years?

 

[eligrba]

11 hours ago, CaliAngel said:

Something is wrong with us developing talent. Almost nobody we bring up performs. They've had 8 years now since our last playoff appearance, and that should have been plenty of time for us "cycle through" a generation of players and to rebuild and turn it around, but we have not seen any improvement. If anything, it's gotten worse.

Somebody doesn't know how to do their job growing our young talent to bring them up to the MLB level. Or somebody who is selecting talent doesn't know what talent is. 

It takes a village....unfortunately it looks like the Angels have more than one idiot in their village.

[Jeff Fletcher]

11 hours ago, CaliAngel said:

Not picking on your post or towards you Jeff, just remarking on the situation in general. 

I agree with you.

My point is that the Angels know the farm system stinks and they’re trying to fix it, but they’ve done a bad job. As opposed to just ignoring the problem or trying to work around it, which I believe was the implication of the post to which I was replying in the first place. 

[BTH]

19 minutes ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I agree with you.

My point is that the Angels know the farm system stinks and they’re trying to fix it, but they’ve done a bad job. As opposed to just ignoring the problem or trying to work around it, which I believe was the implication of the post to which I was replying in the first place. 

Maybe it’s because they’re drafting for need (pitching) instead of drafting the best players available…

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Jeff Fletcher said:

I agree with you.

My point is that the Angels know the farm system stinks and they’re trying to fix it, but they’ve done a bad job. As opposed to just ignoring the problem or trying to work around it, which I believe was the implication of the post to which I was replying in the first place. 

My view of any of the farm systems is that the talent you draft can only develop as high as the quality of those working with them.

The quality of those coaches are only that of the pay scale offered. Of what I've read the high end of the manager pay scale was reported at being about $64k a year. When you figure in days worked from start of season to wrap in the minors, they make about $350 a day but those days are probably close to 10 or more during the season. 

Everyone under them make less. What is the incentive? Maybe love of the game, they couldn't get a broadcast job, scouting jobs are few, Wal-Mart pays less but will give you work in the off season, they think they can work up to manager at AAA and to a bench coach job in the majors.

Well paid players that retire from the majors probably have no incentive to go into minor league coaching. Erstad went back to Nebraska for about a decade. Salmon took a gig coaching his son's little league team. GA went to Rodger Dunns and bought some nice golf clubs. Very talented players with plenty they could teach but dusty roads in the mid west on buses they probably road in as AA players has little appeal. 

Our minor league coaching staff reads like a list of cup of coffee players. This is the 66ers coaching staff filled with household names. But only in their households.

Ever Magallanes played 3 games for the Indians

Ryan Sebra never got out of A+ 

Bo Martino never drafted or played minor league ball

Trevor Nyp played 1 year at a community college

Are these good coaches? I haven't a clue but their resumes say that professional baseball wasn't taking up many sentences. 

 

 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Blarg said:

My view of any of the farm systems is that the talent you draft can only develop as high as the quality of those working with them.

The quality of those coaches are only that of the pay scale offered. Of what I've read the high end of the manager pay scale was reported at being about $64k a year. When you figure in days worked from start of season to wrap in the minors, they make about $350 a day but those days are probably close to 10 or more during the season. 

Everyone under them make less. What is the incentive? Maybe love of the game, they couldn't get a broadcast job, scouting jobs are few, Wal-Mart pays less but will give you work in the off season, they think they can work up to manager at AAA and to a bench coach job in the majors.

Well paid players that retire from the majors probably have no incentive to go into minor league coaching. Erstad went back to Nebraska for about a decade. Salmon took a gig coaching his son's little league team. GA went to Rodger Dunns and bought some nice golf clubs. Very talented players with plenty they could teach but dusty roads in the mid west on buses they probably road in as AA players has little appeal. 

Our minor league coaching staff reads like a list of cup of coffee players. This is the 66ers coaching staff filled with household names. But only in their households.

Ever Magallanes played 3 games for the Indians

Ryan Sebra never got out of A+ 

Bo Martino never drafted or played minor league ball

Trevor Nyp played 1 year at a community college

Are these good coaches? I haven't a clue but their resumes say that professional baseball wasn't taking up many sentences. 

 

 

I think it is a peculiar assumption at best to assume that ex-players with more recognizable names would be better coaches.

[Blarg]

Players with more than 1 year J.C. experience may be usefull. The point is these guys never had  MLB career, two of them never drafted. What experience do they bring that relates to a MLB system? Are they the best at what they do or simply who would take a minimum wage job?