The Athletic: In extended spring training, minor leaguers lament lack of pay: ‘Just a mess’

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Tdawg, at least speaking for myself, nobody here is arguing for greed and minimum wage. Like I said, Id prefer the Angels spend the shit out of the development side, and actually habe a pipeline of talent.

But from an economics side, what sense does it make to pay for something thats never going to make money?

Look how much money this team wasted on guys like Pujols and Hamilton. 

The guys in extended spring wont ever in a million years come close to the skill and talent of either of those two.

Look at the crowd at Oakland games... the Marlins.. etc. And those rosters are light years ahead of A ball players.

Without revenue sharing, those teams would fold.

At any point, they can say "fuck this", walk away and go to work like you, me, and the other 360 million people of us in this country not good enough to play baseball for money. 

Think about how many wannabe actors, singers and comedians are bombing at open mic night tonight. And then convince someone to spend 5 figures on them. Because they really want to keep singing or doing impressions.

 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Needed?

Never happened.

So you were never in a lower financial position than you wanted to be?

[Stradling]

5 minutes ago, Taylor said:

So you were never in a lower financial position than you wanted to be?

Aren’t we all?

[Lou]

4 minutes ago, Taylor said:

So you were never in a lower financial position than you wanted to be?

That's completely different than having less money than i felt i needed.

[ten ocho recon scout]

The Anaheim Police Department, which is the crown jewel of California Law Enforcement (they have people coming from out of state to work here) is at the point where they are offering $10K to new hires. $15K for experienced Cops, $20K for experienced Cops who are Military veterans.

Thats to come to a job that has full benefits and a pension. Where you can make 6 figures in your first 5 years.

And Anaheim now has ro offer cash up front. Because people dont want to do this job.

I can tell you every Anaheim cop would prefer to play baseball for a living.

But they know they arent good enough to do it for money.

Again. Youre only worth what people will pay you for. And we dont all get to pick what we'll be good at.

 

[Lou]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Anaheim Police Department, which is the crown jewel of California Law Enforcement (they have people coming from out of state to work here) is at the point where they are offering $10K to new hires. $15K for experienced Cops, $20K for experienced Cops who are Military veterans.

Thats to come to a job that has full benefits and a pension. Where you can make 6 figures in your first 5 years.

And Anaheim now has ro offer cash up front. Because people dont want to do this job.

I can tell you every Anaheim cop would prefer to play baseball for a living.

But they know they arent good enough to do it for money.

Again. Youre only worth what people will pay you for. And we dont all get to pick what we'll be good at.

 

I miss tdawg

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

20 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Tdawg, at least speaking for myself, nobody here is arguing for greed and minimum wage. Like I said, Id prefer the Angels spend the shit out of the development side, and actually habe a pipeline of talent.

But from an economics side, what sense does it make to pay for something thats never going to make money?

Look how much money this team wasted on guys like Pujols and Hamilton. 

The guys in extended spring wont ever in a million years come close to the skill and talent of either of those two.

Look at the crowd at Oakland games... the Marlins.. etc. And those rosters are light years ahead of A ball players.

Without revenue sharing, those teams would fold.

At any point, they can say "fuck this", walk away and go to work like you, me, and the other 360 million people of us in this country not good enough to play baseball for money. 

Think about how many wannabe actors, singers and comedians are bombing at open mic night tonight. And then convince someone to spend 5 figures on them. Because they really want to keep singing or doing impressions.

We pay for things that aren’t going to make money all the time. These tend to be things that we have collectively decided have value despite not producing measurable value on the free market.

The problem with MLB is, the free market does not exist in baseball - MLB is the sole decider of what carries value in the market. MLB has full control over a players wages and their ability to sell their skills for up to 12 years. If your team chooses to stick you in extended spring for $20 a day you either accept it or you retire. There is no join the army and play on weekends, or go back to school or wait tables at night and practice with the team during the day.

If these guys are just sparing partners then MLB should treat them like independent contractors, with the terms negotiable by all parties and in compliance with all labor laws without exception.

Teams can waste millions on Pujols because they are making tons of money not paying market rate for 99.9% of their labor.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

27 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Anaheim Police Department, which is the crown jewel of California Law Enforcement (they have people coming from out of state to work here) is at the point where they are offering $10K to new hires. $15K for experienced Cops, $20K for experienced Cops who are Military veterans.

Thats to come to a job that has full benefits and a pension. Where you can make 6 figures in your first 5 years.

And Anaheim now has ro offer cash up front. Because people dont want to do this job.

I can tell you every Anaheim cop would prefer to play baseball for a living.

But they know they arent good enough to do it for money.

Again. Youre only worth what people will pay you for. And we dont all get to pick what we'll be good at.

 

A police department might be a good example of a profession that doesn’t generate money from a free market / libertarian perspective.

We have collectively decided to put different values on police in different communities. There very well might be communities that do not value police, and if those communities functioned like MLB you would not be receiving offers for signing bonuses, you very well might be getting paid $20 a day and being forced to choose between that and retirement, because you sure as hell cannot negotiate a higher rate with another department.

[eligrba]

18 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Anaheim Police Department, which is the crown jewel of California Law Enforcement (they have people coming from out of state to work here) is at the point where they are offering $10K to new hires. $15K for experienced Cops, $20K for experienced Cops who are Military veterans.

Thats to come to a job that has full benefits and a pension. Where you can make 6 figures in your first 5 years.

And Anaheim now has ro offer cash up front. Because people dont want to do this job.

I can tell you every Anaheim cop would prefer to play baseball for a living.

But they know they arent good enough to do it for money.

Again. Youre only worth what people will pay you for. And we dont all get to pick what we'll be good at.

 

Well trained ethical police officers are under paid, under valued and under appreciated. Thanks for being out there.  I spent some of my formative time in Newton Division. Be safe.

[Blarg]

21 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

One of my favourite meals: Full English Breakfast.

You guys die young, don't you. 

[failos]

29 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You guys die young, don't you. 

Lol and us Americans don't?

[WicketMaiden]

52 minutes ago, Blarg said:

You guys die young, don't you. 

UK life expectancy is actually a couple of years longer than in the US. 

[Blarg]

15 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

UK life expectancy is actually a couple of years longer than in the US. 

Meet you for breakfast then. 

[WicketMaiden]

29 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Meet you for breakfast then. 

Yes, do it over here though, the healthcare is free. You know, just in case.

[gotbeer]

21 hours ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The Anaheim Police Department, which is the crown jewel of California Law Enforcement (they have people coming from out of state to work here) is at the point where they are offering $10K to new hires. $15K for experienced Cops, $20K for experienced Cops who are Military veterans.

Thats to come to a job that has full benefits and a pension. Where you can make 6 figures in your first 5 years.

And Anaheim now has ro offer cash up front. Because people dont want to do this job.

I can tell you every Anaheim cop would prefer to play baseball for a living.

But they know they arent good enough to do it for money.

Again. Youre only worth what people will pay you for. And we dont all get to pick what we'll be good at.

 

Here is the thing you are missing though.  All that you listed is good and all.  But would Anaheim Police department pay $10k to new hires to a kid from Latin America that probably speaks minimal English, education is also minimal, and is here on a specific baseball visa?  

It's easy to say, give up and do something else.  But some, if not most of these players, this is their one only chance at being anything other than a dishwasher or gardener here or going back home and living in poverty.  It's easy to say $20 should buy you dinner.  But to these guys, $140 a week vs $400 a week that players from other teams are getting is a huge difference.  

[Docwaukee]

Is the time commitment for these guys that of a full time job?  Could they even get a part time job on a J1?  asking because I really don't know. 

they only travel locally for games right? 

seems like both sides have some ground to cover here.  Could the teams help coordinate side jobs for the players to make extra money?  Maybe they do.  If the players are putting in 3-4 hrs a day of work it seems they could make more of an effort to make some dough if they wanted. 

Also, to say that they aren't getting paid is kinda disingenuous in my opinion.  $20 a day plus 2 meals plus a room plus free healthcare isn't free.  My guess is that they don't pay utilities, they probably get cable and internet.  They probably have zero expenses other than maybe a cell phone and street clothes?  Do they pay their own travel? 

And don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying it's fair.  I agree with ALF on the IC thing and the real issue that gets me is that MLB seems outside the confines of what every other corp in america is allowed. 

Plus I still don't get the disconnect between how a little more investment wouldn't result in more savings in the long term.  Clearly, five teams see it a certain way while others don't.    

[Lou]

2 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Is the time commitment for these guys that of a full time job?  Could they even get a part time job on a J1?  asking because I really don't know. 

they only travel locally for games right? 

seems like both sides have some ground to cover here.  Could the teams help coordinate side jobs for the players to make extra money?  Maybe they do.  If the players are putting in 3-4 hrs a day of work it seems they could make more of an effort to make some dough if they wanted. 

Also, to say that they aren't getting paid is kinda disingenuous in my opinion.  $20 a day plus 2 meals plus a room plus free healthcare isn't free.  My guess is that they don't pay utilities, they probably get cable and internet.  They probably have zero expenses other than maybe a cell phone and street clothes?  Do they pay their own travel? 

And don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying it's fair.  I agree with ALF on the IC thing and the real issue that gets me is that MLB seems outside the confines of what every other corp in america is allowed. 

Plus I still don't get the disconnect between how a little more investment wouldn't result in more savings in the long term.  Clearly, five teams see it a certain way while others don't.    

Welcome to the Usual Suspects Club. 

You're Keaton. I'll be Fenster. 

[Taylor]

Having empathy is a better way to live. It prevents you from growing into an old miser.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, WicketMaiden said:

Yes, do it over here though, the healthcare is free. You know, just in case.

Now why would you lie to me about your healthcare? Oh wait, you guys pretty much invented taxation so it's not even noticed another 18% is taken each payday. That's like tipping the government every week for warm beer. 

[Blarg]

3 hours ago, Docwaukee said:

Is the time commitment for these guys that of a full time job?  Could they even get a part time job on a J1?  asking because I really don't know. 

they only travel locally for games right? 

seems like both sides have some ground to cover here.  Could the teams help coordinate side jobs for the players to make extra money?  Maybe they do.  If the players are putting in 3-4 hrs a day of work it seems they could make more of an effort to make some dough if they wanted. 

Also, to say that they aren't getting paid is kinda disingenuous in my opinion.  $20 a day plus 2 meals plus a room plus free healthcare isn't free.  My guess is that they don't pay utilities, they probably get cable and internet.  They probably have zero expenses other than maybe a cell phone and street clothes?  Do they pay their own travel? 

And don't get me wrong.  I'm not saying it's fair.  I agree with ALF on the IC thing and the real issue that gets me is that MLB seems outside the confines of what every other corp in america is allowed. 

Plus I still don't get the disconnect between how a little more investment wouldn't result in more savings in the long term.  Clearly, five teams see it a certain way while others don't.    

Interns don't even get a sip of the coffee they schlep for their producers in Hollywood that abuse the shit out of them. 

[tdawg87]

Blarg you forgot to mention the waiting periods.

You're slipping.

[Docwaukee]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

Welcome to the Usual Suspects Club. 

You're Keaton. I'll be Fenster. 

is that the one about the hooker with dysentery?  

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Docwaukee said:

is that the one about the hooker with dysentery?  

You're Hockney.

[Lou]

Going to watch that tonight.

For the 37th time.

[Lou]

Rendon is Kent.