Time to make Shohei an Angel for life

[Angels 1961]

On 7/14/2022 at 4:11 PM, Dtwncbad said:

Even the idea of purchasing some elite players runs into a little trouble because the starting pitching free agent class isn’t great this offseason.

If the Angels want to build a winner fast, they probably should have the balls to trade for Montas or Castillo (who they can control beyond this year) to accomplish some of what they need to accomplish for next year.

Then add Rodon (almost certainly will opt out) and Trea Turner in free agency.

 

Trea Turner will be 35 to 40 mill a year and he is going to Philly.

[Taylor]

Gary Matthews Jr.

[HaloSpurs]

Came here to say this. I never want to see him pull on another uniform 

[tomsred]

There are currently only 186 billionaires in California (614 in the total USA), which has the highest number of any state by far in the U.S..  There are not going to be that many single ownership folks to invest that heavily in baseball.  I think we will likely get an ownership group, and it will be tough to predict what's best to do about the Shohei's situation.  I would love for Arte to step in and do whatever it takes to sign him, and then let the new owner deal with it from there.  

[Duren, Duren]

If he hits free agency it's then really up to Ohtani, isn't it? 

He likely will be the highest paid player anywhere he signs. Terms and conditions should also be his call. Or at least worked out to his satisfaction. Each team will tweak their presentation showing how he will be a key piece of their championship plans. Short and long term.  And possibly have players from their club help in convincing him to sign with them.

His familiarity with the Angels cuts both way. On the one hand, a comfort zone in the environment and loyalty to individuals on the team and organization. Which presupposes optimism about being competitive over the term of the contract.  Conversely, this familiarity may breed pessimism based on the failure to ignite over his half dozen years here. Plus any number of other private factors which only he and his advisors will be contemplating.

If he starts next season without a new contract the sideshow will be overwhelming and distracting. And intensified because of the unstable ownership situation if that issue remains unresolved. 

As well, he will be a depreciating asset as the season plays out with any trade partner only gets a portion of his presence. With the return for the Angels probably getting progressively less impressive. A deadline trade could also serve as a test drive for a long term extension, giving Ohtani a sample of what it would be like in a playoff race and being on a different team. Sometimes a player traded as a rental returns to his old team, but usually does not. 

Whatever happens, it will mark a key moment in franchise history.

 

 

[Duren, Duren]

Preview of coming attractions from many cities as they dream of a free agent Ohtani. 

https://www.tsn.ca/scott-mitchell-dreaming-of-the-picture-perfect-shohei-ohtani-fit-in-toronto-1.1841628

[cals]

I don’t know what the accountants are telling Moreno.  But if they lose Shohei because he decides to sell now before Shohei can be signed long term (assuming he’d do it), Moreno will forever be a pariah in SoCal.

Hopefully the accountants are telling him to lock up his biggest asset for whatever because he will recoup it in the sale.

Losing Shohei would be awful.  He better be traded or resigned this offseason.  Going into 2023 without either (which it the likely scenario) is sheer stupidity.

[ten ocho recon scout]

40 minutes ago, cals said:

I don’t know what the accountants are telling Moreno.  But if they lose Shohei because he decides to sell now before Shohei can be signed long term (assuming he’d do it), Moreno will forever be a pariah in SoCal.

Hopefully the accountants are telling him to lock up his biggest asset for whatever because he will recoup it in the sale.

Losing Shohei would be awful.  He better be traded or resigned this offseason.  Going into 2023 without either (which it the likely scenario) is sheer stupidity.

Almost like front load the contract for once. Pay him a shit ton next two years, with his less expensive years coming later. Like you said, I doubt potential buyer who's going to pay 3 billion more or less to own the product is going to sweat owing 300 mill to a cash cow.

[cals]

9 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Almost like front load the contract for once. Pay him a shit ton next two years, with his less expensive years coming later. Like you said, I doubt potential buyer who's going to pay 3 billion more or less to own the product is going to sweat owing 300 mill to a cash cow.

The more I think about it, it seems like a weird move to announce the team is for sale before locking him up.  At this point he IS this team.  

And yes, Mike Trout is a future HOF’er with I assume (hope) are a few great years ahead. But Shohei is the only player in the history of the sport to do what he is doing.  I have to assume he’s worth more to the franchise than anything they pay him.

Without him, to a buyer, the Angels are a low-level, big market team with an aging superstar and a history of general failure that requires a lot of work to turn around.  They may still be the same with him, but with an asset that’s going to make a lot of money for the team.

[Lou]

No other player will ever do what Ohtani is doing. 

Ever. 

[AngelStew43]

I have to agree.  Pay Shohei whatever it takes to get his name on a contract.  He is generating nearly 10 million dollars a year in revenue, anyway.  If we trade him, that revenue is lost to whomever the owner is.  

Next, bring in some help for Shohei and Trout.  Turner, Boegarts, any OF that knows how to get on base, just surround those guys with players that still have some skill at getting on base.  

With what is going on in AA, Bachman, Joyce, Jose Soriano, CRod, should all be in position to contribute next season.  

I think our pitching is turning out very well. 

[cals]

6 minutes ago, Lou said:

No other player will ever do what Ohtani is doing. 

Ever. 

Possibly.  I think one of the main reasons he’s doing what he’s doing is that he came from a different culture that allowed him to flourish both ways.  To me, it seems like in America young athletes who excelled at both in little league and HS (maybe college, too), are directed by old school thinking to focus on one and develop those skills at the detriment of the other skill. (I’m not saying Japan is much different usually, but they’re the ones that gave him this chance, so I have to give his coaches there credit.)

I think we’re going to see more two-way players in the future because of Shohei.  

Will we ever see one who is one of the best in the league at both?  I don’t know.  If it happens it’s only because of what Shohei has done.

[Lou]

10 minutes ago, cals said:

Will we ever see one who is one of the best in the league at both?  I don’t know.

I know. 

The answer is no.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, cals said:

 

Without him, to a buyer, the Angels are a low-level, big market team with an aging superstar and a history of general failure that requires a lot of work to turn around.  They may still be the same with him, but with an asset that’s going to make a lot of money for the team.

But one with a hell of a fan website.

[failos]

On 4/20/2022 at 8:58 PM, AngelsLakersFan said:

Taylor is a whore

love this

[Dtwncbad]

The Angels are quite light on having a historical legacy.  When you talk about the Angels history, it starts with one World Series and then it gets pretty lean pretty fast.

How many Angels (players PRIMARILY associated with the Angels) are in the HOF?

It sure seems like the Angels would be complete fools to let Ohtani go off to another team.

The overall historical legacy of the Angels as a franchise exponentially increases if the Trout/Ohtani pair stays together, thrives and wins a ring.

It takes a step backwards if that doesn’t happen.

I sure hope they are it this way.

[Angels 1961]

16 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

The Angels are quite light on having a historical legacy.  When you talk about the Angels history, it starts with one World Series and then it gets pretty lean pretty fast.

How many Angels (players PRIMARILY associated with the Angels) are in the HOF?

It sure seems like the Angels would be complete fools to let Ohtani go off to another team.

The overall historical legacy of the Angels as a franchise exponentially increases if the Trout/Ohtani pair stays together, thrives and wins a ring.

It takes a step backwards if that doesn’t happen.

I sure hope they are it this way.

I agree the question is does Ohtani want to stay and how much would it cost.

[DCAngelsFan]

8 hours ago, cals said:

The more I think about it, it seems like a weird move to announce the team is for sale before locking him up.  At this point he IS this team.  

And yes, Mike Trout is a future HOF’er with I assume (hope) are a few great years ahead. But Shohei is the only player in the history of the sport to do what he is doing.  I have to assume he’s worth more to the franchise than anything they pay him.

Without him, to a buyer, the Angels are a low-level, big market team with an aging superstar and a history of general failure that requires a lot of work to turn around.  They may still be the same with him, but with an asset that’s going to make a lot of money for the team.

At this point, Ohtani is worth more than his on-the-field performance - he creates excitement and puts butts in seats.  And like you say, this is baseball history playing out right in front of us. 

I think he sets the terms - but I'd consider putting an opt-out clause after a couple of years on the table, with the intent of signaling to him "give this new ownership a chance to get competitive - after two years, if you don't like where the team's headed, you can opt out.  

We really have to understand his concerns and desires - does he want the most cash, does he want a shot at the World Series, does he want to wear a different uniform - without knowing, we can't even guess what it'll take.

The main thing here is ownership and management groups have to be formed quickly, a winner selected, and the sale completed (assuming Arte doesn't slow-roll the thing.)

 Only a new owner can sell Ohtani they'll do whatever it takes to get this team into WS contention and soon.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

I still think they dropped the ball not flipping him at the deadline. You hope the reason is because they're going to lock him up, but..

Seeing the pitching core look like it can be solid going forward, and knowing there's more on the way....

It's hard not to watch the last few nights, with a packed stadium, daydream that Moreno opens his wallet as a last hurrah before he sells, locks Ohtani up and adds someone else who can hit....

The smart move, from a roster standpoint (not business one) is to trade Ohtani and fix other problems. Especially with the pitching looking like it might be emerging.

But it's hard to not see that as a massive fail. 

 

[Angels 1961]

50 million a year for 10 years

[Angel Oracle]

Bump

Here’s my latest thought on a contract.

Base salary = $32 million/season 

First 100 innings pitched = $3 million

Each extra 20 innings = $3 million

Opt outs after seasons 2 and 4

Only question is, for how many seasons?

6? 7? 8?

———————

So in a season where he pitches 162 innings = $44 million earned 

180 innings = $47 million earned 

200 innings = $50 million earned 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Angel Oracle

[Jason]

14 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Bump

Here’s my latest thought on a contract.

Base salary = $32 million/season 

First 100 innings pitched = $3 million

Each extra 20 innings = $3 million

Opt outs after seasons 2 and 4

Only question is, for how many seasons?

6? 7? 8?

———————

So in a season where he pitches 162 innings = $44 million earned 

180 innings = $47 million earned 

200 innings = $50 million earned 

 

6 years. He isn’t all that young and I expect him to break down quicker than other players since he’s doing the dual role thing. 

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Bump

Here’s my latest thought on a contract.

Base salary = $32 million/season 

First 100 innings pitched = $3 million

Each extra 20 innings = $3 million

Opt outs after seasons 2 and 4

Only question is, for how many seasons?

6? 7? 8?

———————

So in a season where he pitches 162 innings = $44 million earned 

180 innings = $47 million earned 

200 innings = $50 million earned 

 

I love it, but the $3 million for every 20 innings after 100, is paying him roughly $1 million per start.  That shouldn’t happen.  Move that to 150 innings then you might have something.  He was at 100 innings at the All Star Break or very close.

[Angel Oracle]

40 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I love it, but the $3 million for every 20 innings after 100, is paying him roughly $1 million per start.  That shouldn’t happen.  Move that to 150 innings then you might have something.  He was at 100 innings at the All Star Break or very close.

$35 million base, then $5 million extra for reaching 150 innings, then $5 million extra for each 25 innings after that?

Under 150 innings = $35 million

At least 150 innings = $40 million

At least 175 innings = $45 million

At least 200 innings = $50 million

[Angel Oracle]

58 minutes ago, Jason said:

6 years. He isn’t all that young and I expect him to break down quicker than other players since he’s doing the dual role thing. 

Good point, would be age 34 in 2028 (age 35 in 2029 if new deal not until 2024).

Plus the 2 year and 4 year opt outs still allow him to seek more money later, if still at the top of both parts of his game.