Noah Syndergaard - Angels Agree to 1-Year, $21 Million Deal

[totdprods]

I don't disagree that it's a tremendous amount of money and that it's really risky, but constantly saying "only pitched two innings in the last two years!!!" is also kind of misleading. 

Like many pitchers, he had Tommy John. That's going to automatically take you out for one year, almost a year and a half these days. And he had COVID. The soreness he had last year is certainly worrisome, but also not totally unexpected.

It's not like he lost two years of pitching to a number of lingering, unaddressed injuries and that's why he only pitched two innings. It was pretty much a given he'd throw very few innings. 

If anything, it's encouraging the Angels are signing him now, as with our luck it's likelier we would have signed him a year ago while still fresh off TJS instead of waiting the more actual length of time needed to heal.

Edited November 17, 2021 by totdprods

[Warfarin]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I don't disagree that it's a tremendous amount of money and that it's really risky, but constantly saying "only pitched two innings in the last two years!!!" is also kind of misleading. 

Like many pitchers, he had Tommy John. That's going to automatically take you out for one year, almost a year and a half these days. And he had COVID. The soreness he had last year is certainly worrisome, but also not totally unexpected.

It's not like he lost two years of pitching to a number of lingering, unaddressed injuries and that's why he only pitched two innings. It was pretty much a given he'd throw very few innings. 

If anything, it's encouraging the Angels are signing him now, as with our luck it's likelier we would have signed him a year ago while still fresh off TJS instead of waiting the more actual length of time needed to heal.

I agree.

Consider also that we are likely to employ a 6 man rotation again, and that's probably an ideal setting for Syndergaard, who may be limited to ~120-130 innings total.

I'm sure Minasian will target another SP that has durability and can help fill out the rotation.  Syndergaard is more of the upside play, such that if he is actually healthy, then we suddenly have twin aces at the top of the rotation.

I get the skepticism, given our track record of signing pitchers to one year deals, but Syndergaard is in a much different upside category than Harvey, Quintana, etc.

As we've discussed in other threads, I'd love for that "other" SP to be Scherzer.  It's fun to dream on Scherzer, Ohtani, Syndergaard, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers/Barria/Canning.

[Inside Pitch]

7 hours ago, Lou said:

Syndergaard is nothing like Kazmir 

You're right, but he IS a lot like Matt Harvey.   I'm not even trying to shit on this move -- potentially the Angels got the biggest upside arm available and that's the sort of top end talent they needed but the signing itself is like Harvey's in the sense that it's all about risk/reward. 

People can argue that Syndergaard had a longer run of greatness than Harvey so he's less of a longshot and 100% that's something I can get behind, but in both cases, the Angels are hoping a guy reverts to what he had been while there are no guarantees of what he currently is. They got this done early so, it's clearly a first choice type move and not a last resort, so there are differences too.  I respect their choice and unlike the Harvey deal where I publicly said PRIOR to his being signed that I wanted no part of him, I'm excited about the Syndergaard deal but I can see a lot of the same thought processes being involved..  But the high risk nature of the move has me hoping they sign a high probability guy more than ever.  Stroman is probably the best high probability guy available -- not saying he's the guy they need to sign but he's just always healthy and very consistent.

I know the belief is that the Angels can't clog their payroll with Ohtani's FA coming after 2023, but they shouldn't stop themselves from adding someone that could be a part of what takes them back into contention over the next five years to try to have room to maybe win in 2024.  Once again, I do not envy Perry Minasian and it's stuff like this that really makes me respect how difficult being a MLB GM is beyond all the actual baseball IQ.

I've seen Perry talking up the importance of the long term, something I hope leads him to retain as much of the young readily available talent as possible, but as it stands right now they have AP's money gone, Upton's money gone after this season and Syndergaard only signed for one more year...  I REALLY hope they follow up this signing with a Stroman/Ray type and then worry about Shohei when they get there. 

[Warfarin]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

 

I know the belief is that the Angels can't clog their payroll with Ohtani's FA coming after 2023, but they shouldn't stop themselves from adding someone that could be a part of what takes them back into contention over the next five years to try to have room to maybe win in 2024.  Once again, I do not envy Perry Minasian and it's stuff like this that really makes me respect how difficult being a MLB GM is beyond all the actual baseball IQ.
 

Yeah - I get the sense, based on the moves Minasian has made, that he is trying to add significant payroll year by year without formulating any long-term commitments.

I suspect that whoever he ends up signing to fill out the rotation, the max we would probably see is a 3 year deal, and perhaps even maybe just 2 years.

Upton will be off the books after this year, but Ohtani will require a mega contract soon, such that we'll see 3 guys who combine for north of 100 million in payroll very soon.

The key aspect to all of this will be how strong Perry's draft and developing team ends up being.  That will ultimately make or break his tenure here.

[Angel Oracle]

6 hours ago, Puget Sound Angel said:

I'd be leery of giving any pitcher more than a 3 year deal.

Maybe 3 years plus team option year as the max.

[totdprods]

20 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

I agree.

Consider also that we are likely to employ a 6 man rotation again, and that's probably an ideal setting for Syndergaard, who may be limited to ~120-130 innings total.

I'm sure Minasian will target another SP that has durability and can help fill out the rotation.  Syndergaard is more of the upside play, such that if he is actually healthy, then we suddenly have twin aces at the top of the rotation.

I get the skepticism, given our track record of signing pitchers to one year deals, but Syndergaard is in a much different upside category than Harvey, Quintana, etc.

As we've discussed in other threads, I'd love for that "other" SP to be Scherzer.  It's fun to dream on Scherzer, Ohtani, Syndergaard, Sandoval, Suarez, Detmers/Barria/Canning.

I kind of feel that given the reports or speculation that the Angels are interested in shorter-term deals, tried acquiring Scherzer at the deadline, that Trout wants Scherzer, he makes plenty of sense as the next target. It's seemed like a given he'd return to the Dodgers, but, after seeing them potentially let Kershaw go, I'm starting to wonder if the Dodgers are going to do the same with Scherzer...

Sure, they have the money, they have the need, but neither re-signing Kershaw or Scherzer are really 'smart' in terms of risk and cost. The emotional aspect leads us to think re-signing Scherzer and Kershaw are no-doubts, but, it's really not the way they've operated. I imagine it's more likely they acquire Castillo and Sonny Gray or another mid-tier FA SP and continue operating with younger arms and more flexibility. That's their MO. 

Which leaves Scherzer sitting there for the taking, and back to the top of this post...

It's not really what I would do, as that's a ton of money for Scherzer and Syndergaard - both risky - and not many other needs, but we should know by now that the ideal way to build a roster or team or shrewd moves simply aren't part of the way the Angels operate. They're big and bold and dumb and haven't worked out yet. But could.

Edited November 17, 2021 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Upton will be off the books after this year, but Ohtani will require a mega contract soon, such that we'll see 3 guys who combine for north of 100 million in payroll very soon.

I suspect this is likely true, and I understand why they need to be able to do that if it comes to it..  but I genuinely believe Ohtani is more about winning than anything else.  I can see him signing somewhere he believes he can win while being happy at the same time.  Obviously I don't know the guy, I don't know what is really in his head or what his desires are -- plus, those sorts of things can change over time.  But I think if the Angels put themselves into a position where they look like they are built to win, that will carry a lot of weight with him.

 

[Angel Oracle]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

Yeah - I get the sense, based on the moves Minasian has made, that he is trying to add significant payroll year by year without formulating any long-term commitments.

I suspect that whoever he ends up signing to fill out the rotation, the max we would probably see is a 3 year deal, and perhaps even maybe just 2 years.

Upton will be off the books after this year, but Ohtani will require a mega contract soon, such that we'll see 3 guys who combine for north of 100 million in payroll very soon.

The key aspect to all of this will be how strong Perry's draft and developing team ends up being.  That will ultimately make or break his tenure here.

We’re still a year away from Perry truly being able to determine how much Ohtani will be worth.

It’s much better to offer that new big contract after two big seasons of pitching/DHing vs just one.

[Warfarin]

1 minute ago, totdprods said:

I kind of feel that given the reports or speculation that the Angels are interested in shorter-term deals, tried acquiring Scherzer at the deadline, that Trout wants Scherzer, he makes plenty of sense as the next target. It's seemed like a given he'd return to the Dodgers, but, after seeing them potentially let Kershaw go, I'm starting to wonder if the Dodgers are going to do the same with Scherzer...

Sure, they have the money, they have the need, but neither re-signing Kershaw or Scherzer are really 'smart' in terms of risk and cost. The emotional aspect leads us to think re-signing Scherzer and Kershaw are no-doubts, but, it's really not the way they've operated. I imagine it's more likely they acquire Castillo and Sonny Gray or another mid-tier FA SP and continue operating with younger arms and more flexibility. That's their MO. 

Which leaves Scherzer sitting there for the taking, and back to the top of this post...

With Scherzer, he would "only" require a 3 year deal too, given his age.  It may blow up and he may break down, but a 3 year commitment might be the "max" (pun somewhat intended) of what our FO is willing to commit.

I do think it is more likely we pursue and sign a FA than trade for one.  Our farm system is still not that strong, and I'm guessing Minasian will want to continue to build upon it, rather than deplete it to acquire Castillo or someone of that caliber that would require significant prospects to be shipped out.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I kind of feel that given the reports or speculation that the Angels are interested in shorter-term deals, tried acquiring Scherzer at the deadline, that Trout wants Scherzer, he makes plenty of sense as the next target. It's seemed like a given he'd return to the Dodgers, but, after seeing them potentially let Kershaw go, I'm starting to wonder if the Dodgers are going to do the same with Scherzer...

Sure, they have the money, they have the need, but neither re-signing Kershaw or Scherzer are really 'smart' in terms of risk and cost. The emotional aspect leads us to think re-signing Scherzer and Kershaw are no-doubts, but, it's really not the way they've operated. I imagine it's more likely they acquire Castillo and Sonny Gray or another mid-tier FA SP and continue operating with younger arms and more flexibility. That's their MO. 

Which leaves Scherzer sitting there for the taking, and back to the top of this post...

It's not really what I would do, as that's a ton of money for Scherzer and Syndergaard - both risky - and not many other needs, but we should know by now that the ideal way to build a roster or team or shrewd moves simply aren't part of the way the Angels operate. They're big and bold and dumb and haven't worked out yet. But could.

I can see there being something to Verlander too.  And I really cant stand that grandstanding POS.  But, his wife will likely be in attendance so, there are upsides besides the mound stuff.

[totdprods]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I can see there being something to Verlander too.  And I really cant stand that grandstanding POS.  But, his wife will likely be in attendance so, there are upsides besides the mound stuff.

Agree 100%, I just feel for some reason Verlander has more of an East Coast or return to Detroit/Houston vibe. I’m going to guess Detroit. 

Hinch is manager, Tigers are spending, Verlander and Upton are both from Michigan with a young daughter, they have a stable of young arms to mentor. It’s the perfect fit for many reasons. Tigers can afford spending more in years and money than Astros or other teams and not have it hurt them, especially with his legacy there. It’s very easy for them to offer something like 2/$50m or 3/$60m+ and not worry how it ends.

Edited November 17, 2021 by totdprods

[tdawg87]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I can see there being something to Verlander too.  And I really cant stand that grandstanding POS.  But, his wife will likely be in attendance so, there are upsides besides the mound stuff.

You're into that too, huh?

[Inside Pitch]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

You're into that too, huh?

mounds stuff

[Angel Oracle]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Agree 100%, I just feel for some reason Verlander has more of an East Coast or return to Detroit/Houston vibe. I’m going to guess Detroit. 

Tigers have the money to spend.   Rodriguez is currently the only larger money guy on the roster.   Hence, they also being connected to Correa.

[tdawg87]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

mounds stuff

Eww, gross. I was talking about this you weirdo

[totdprods]

Just now, tdawg87 said:

Eww, gross. I was talking about this you weirdo

These are soooooooo good. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, tdawg87 said:

Eww, gross. I was talking about this you weirdo

Even when I'm talking 100% about baseball, I'm really talking about this...

@Tank Understands what I mean.

 

[Lou]

41 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You're right, but he IS a lot like Matt Harvey.   I'm not even trying to shit on this move -- potentially the Angels got the biggest upside arm available and that's the sort of top end talent they needed but the signing itself is like Harvey's in the sense that it's all about risk/reward. 

People can argue that Syndergaard had a longer run of greatness than Harvey so he's less of a longshot and 100% that's something I can get behind, but in both cases, the Angels are hoping a guy reverts to what he had been while there are no guarantees of what he currently is. They got this done early so, it's clearly a first choice type move and not a last resort, so there are differences too.  I respect their choice and unlike the Harvey deal where I publicly said PRIOR to his being signed that I wanted no part of him, I'm excited about the Syndergaard deal but I can see a lot of the same thought processes being involved..  But the high risk nature of the move has me hoping they sign a high probability guy more than ever.  Stroman is probably the best high probability guy available -- not saying he's the guy they need to sign but he's just always healthy and very consistent.

I know the belief is that the Angels can't clog their payroll with Ohtani's FA coming after 2023, but they shouldn't stop themselves from adding someone that could be a part of what takes them back into contention over the next five years to try to have room to maybe win in 2024.  Once again, I do not envy Perry Minasian and it's stuff like this that really makes me respect how difficult being a MLB GM is beyond all the actual baseball IQ.

I've seen Perry talking up the importance of the long term, something I hope leads him to retain as much of the young readily available talent as possible, but as it stands right now they have AP's money gone, Upton's money gone after this season and Syndergaard only signed for one more year...  I REALLY hope they follow up this signing with a Stroman/Ray type and then worry about Shohei when they get there. 

So, he's nothing like Kazmir. 

[Lou]

9 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Even when I'm talking 100% about baseball, I'm really talking about this...

@Tank Understands what I mean.

 

What was Nate doing there?

[arch stanton]

Just now, Lou said:

What was Nate doing there?

Looks like he's dancing with a minion?

[Stradling]

We used to have a guy that posted here named Nate. 

[Second Base]

59 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

You're right, but he IS a lot like Matt Harvey.   I'm not even trying to shit on this move -- potentially the Angels got the biggest upside arm available and that's the sort of top end talent they needed but the signing itself is like Harvey's in the sense that it's all about risk/reward. 

People can argue that Syndergaard had a longer run of greatness than Harvey so he's less of a longshot and 100% that's something I can get behind, but in both cases, the Angels are hoping a guy reverts to what he had been while there are no guarantees of what he currently is. They got this done early so, it's clearly a first choice type move and not a last resort, so there are differences too.  I respect their choice and unlike the Harvey deal where I publicly said PRIOR to his being signed that I wanted no part of him, I'm excited about the Syndergaard deal but I can see a lot of the same thought processes being involved..  But the high risk nature of the move has me hoping they sign a high probability guy more than ever.  Stroman is probably the best high probability guy available -- not saying he's the guy they need to sign but he's just always healthy and very consistent.

I know the belief is that the Angels can't clog their payroll with Ohtani's FA coming after 2023, but they shouldn't stop themselves from adding someone that could be a part of what takes them back into contention over the next five years to try to have room to maybe win in 2024.  Once again, I do not envy Perry Minasian and it's stuff like this that really makes me respect how difficult being a MLB GM is beyond all the actual baseball IQ.

I've seen Perry talking up the importance of the long term, something I hope leads him to retain as much of the young readily available talent as possible, but as it stands right now they have AP's money gone, Upton's money gone after this season and Syndergaard only signed for one more year...  I REALLY hope they follow up this signing with a Stroman/Ray type and then worry about Shohei when they get there. 

Thoracic Outlet doesn't have nearly the recovery rate of Tommy John though. Circumstantially, it's similar because it's an injury related surgery. I have more confidence in a return to form for 90% of Tommy John-ers, but TO? Maybe 20%. I've noticed that even when they do come back, it isn't the same. 

[Second Base]

36 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

mounds stuff

Oh ok, so Verlander. 

[wopphil]

47 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

 

I do think it is more likely we pursue and sign a FA than trade for one.  Our farm system is still not that strong, and I'm guessing Minasian will want to continue to build upon it, rather than deplete it to acquire Castillo or someone of that caliber that would require significant prospects to be shipped out.

I hope you are correct. It would be nice to fix the pitching and still have guys like Marsh and Adell and Detmers in the organization. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

53 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I can see there being something to Verlander too.  And I really cant stand that grandstanding POS.  But, his wife will likely be in attendance so, there are upsides besides the mound stuff.

We can use the Upton money thats coming off the books to sign Upton. I like it