Angels fire Mickey Callaway, placed on MLB Ineligible List through 2022

[bruin5]

6 minutes ago, Jinzu said:

I disagree. In my opinion, IF they went along with his “flirting” because they were receiving the benefit of getting inside information from him at the time, it can be seen as consensual. Regretting of past actions would not change that.

I hope you are not an attorney.....

[34red4]

Just now, Taylor said:

You seem to know a lot about this topic. As a woman in sports journalism, have you ever experienced harassment and excessive unwanted attention?

The only thing I claim to know is my opinion. I gave mine, just like you gave yours. We are allowed to disagree. 

[UndertheHalo]

Some of you guys arguing/prattling on about maybe it wasn’t that bad etc.  I’m just going to assume that as a matter of practice you do weird shit with women and therefore are trying to figure out a way to sympathize.  They’ve presented the messages lol.  It’s not in question whether he did it or not haha.  Pretty simple really.  If you send unsolicited sexually charged messages to women you barely know.  Then you’re a weirdo creep.  Also, your game sucks.  There’s no way you’re  landing ladies this way.  And if you somehow are, it’s because they want something from you.  Which makes you dumb if you don’t get that.  Or pathetic for not caring.  It’s one or the other. 

Edited February 3, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[AngelsLakersFan]

50 minutes ago, Taylor said:

"It doesn't offend me, so it shouldn't bother anyone" is what most people seem to think.

I think it's a little more complicated than this. For the majority of the people you are referencing there is a lack of understanding as to why certain behavior is wrong, or unprofessional and that is due to an inability to consider the position the other person is in in relation to their own. The minor leaguer referenced earlier didn't stop to consider her situation, but that doesn't make it malicious. For a man, receiving attention from a woman is almost always taken as a positive thing, so it takes experience to learn this isn't always the case for a woman. 

[Taylor]

49 minutes ago, Jinzu said:

The only thing I claim to know is my opinion. I gave mine, just like you gave yours. We are allowed to disagree. 

The only difference is, my "opinion" is based on the experience of women who have been harassed. Your opinion is based on, well, your own logic I guess, as a man.

[tdawg87]

[tdawg87]

Bauer obviously told the Angels he'd sign with them IF they ditched Callaway. The Angels then leaked this info, knowing they'd have to fire him. Now they can sign Bauer.

Wake.

Up.

SHEEPLE.

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, ScottT said:

There are different incidents being discussed.  One was simply a guy passing on his number via a coach.

Hey, i just met you

And this is CRAZY

but heres my number

So call me maybe.

 

 

 

 

Thats not deviant, because it was catchy.

But kidding aside. If passing your number to a chick youre interested in is creepy, god help us all. You could say its forward. But its no different than people sending friend requests via social media. Decline them if youre not interested.

[T.G.]

Since some of you need to see all of Chelsea James' tweets to get the full perspective... it's not about one incident where a ball player asked for her number...

 

Knew I should take some time (and more than a few deep breaths) before trying to offer any thoughts on the Porter/Callaway situation, but it hit me that it’s fitting that a story like that broke on the day I jumped back into baseball because I haven’t known a day

In a baseball clubhouse without a story like this. My first day in an MLB clubhouse as a 20-year-old intern, a quad-A outfielder who will remain nameless had a coach pass me a piece of paper with his number on it.

I had no idea what I was doing in the first place, so I immediately assumed it was somehow my fault, even though I hadn’t said a word. I felt so awkward from then on. It wasn’t my best reporting day.

But when all you want is to do well — and when doing well means getting players to share insights about their livelihoods — your discomfort feels like it pales in comparison to the desire to tell someone what happened and ensure it doesn’t happen again.

Plus, many of the ways in which women in clubhouses experience sexual harassment are subtle. They’re not things that would rise to the level of requiring legal action. They’re also not things that (ahem) seem to reach the level of fireable offenses to many teams.

So telling someone almost guarantees that your job will get harder and little will change besides your reputation. Plus, the weird half-unwritten rule of baseball clubhouses is what happens there stays there. If a reporter were constantly tweeting every Offensive thing or every unflattering comment said off the record, they would have a tough time getting anyone to say anything to them ever. But if players couldn’t be comfortable there, they wouldn’t allow the access the media has — access that’s crucial to doing their job.

It’s a rare setup in which an industry has cultivated a safe space for its employees to be as misogynistic, homophobic, etc as they want. I know I’ve often been disheartened by what I see and hear there, but the trade for access is discretion.

Its an unofficial contract to which reporters have tacitly agreed for years, one that — like so many things we accepted as necessary, was never really OK. And it fosters the power dynamics that lead to behavior like this.

I know so many women who report on baseball have stories somewhere along the sexual harassment gradient. I certainly have plenty. What I don’t think people fully grasp is how widespread this is.

And what’s so galling is the line between what is appropriate and what isn’t IS NOT BLURRY, even though almost everyone who crosses it tries to say it is in retrospect. I’ve had interactions with many male baseball folks who never come near that line or even threaten to do so.

It’s not a hard problem for a man in pro baseball to avoid. As the reporting of

@KatieJStrang and  @Britt_Ghiroli showed, most of this stuff is unsolicited — a professional text was met with a flirty (or worse) one. Professional politeness suddenly equates to green light.

I am so flabbergasted — and I never ever say flabbergasted because it literally only applies here — by the idea that someone would assume that’s what a reporter wants out of these conversations. Where does one buy a delusional level of confidence like that?

And hiring more women isn’t the answer. All that does is ask women to clean up a mess they didn’t create. I’ve often worried I should have spoken up at times. Like, what if staying quiet means it happens again to someone else? I feel guilt.

But ultimately, those in baseball who act like Porter et. al. KNOW these texts and comments aren’t ok. So do the people around them.

They look the other way: if a reporter isn’t going to make it public, it’s not worth causing a stir to stop it. I can relate to the calculus because, though I’m often ashamed to say so, I looked the other way because my discomfort wasn’t worth more than my ability to do my job.

Anyway, that’s why it’s so important that women like the ones who shared their stories with the Athletic do so. Because causing a stir about behavior like that should only hurt one person’s ability to do his job, and we’re not there yet.

Edited February 3, 2021 by T.G.

[jsnpritchett]

19 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

But kidding aside. If passing your number to a chick youre interested in is creepy, god help us all. You could say its forward. But its no different than people sending friend requests via social media. Decline them if youre not interested.

Do you make a habit of sending Instagram/Facebook friend requests to people you encounter in a work setting but have never spoken to, after their first day on the job?  If so, then, yeah, that's creepy.  I don't know what else to tell you.  For the life of me, I don't get why some people in this thread don't understand this.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 minute ago, jsnpritchett said:

Do you make a habit of sending Instagram/Facebook friend requests to people you encounter in a work setting but have never spoken to, after their first day on the job?  If so, then, yeah, that's creepy.  I don't know what else to tell you.  For the life of me, I don't get why some people in this thread don't understand this.

The story i was referring to was about the minor league guy passing his number to a girl. Not calloway.

Thats not creepy.

What difference does it make at work, first day, etc. If you see a woman, and are interested, whats the proper protocol to meet her? Do they still have southern dances with chaperones?

Literally, if introducing yourself to someone of the opposite sex youre interested in is creepy, the human race will end. 

If this reported tossed his number, and told him "im not interested", and he continued, sure, thats different. 

Thats not even close to what happened, unless im missing something.

Again. Go back to the lyrics i posted above. Did that song cause outrage? No. It was played non stop.

And do you think women dont pass numbers as well? I get one every few days at work. Theres NOTHING creepy about it. 

[T.G.]

10 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And do you think women dont pass numbers as well? I get one every few days at work.

Edited February 3, 2021 by T.G.

[jsnpritchett]

1 minute ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

The story i was referring to was about the minor league guy passing his number to a girl. Not calloway.

Thats not creepy.

What difference does it make at work, first day, etc. If you see a woman, and are interested, whats the proper protocol to meet her? Do they still have southern dances with chaperones?

Literally, if introducing yourself to someone of the opposite sex youre interested in is creepy, the human race will end. 

If this reported tossed his number, and told him "im not interested", and he continued, sure, thats different. 

Thats not even close to what happened, unless im missing something.

Again. Go back to the lyrics i posted above. Did that song cause outrage? No. It was played non stop.

And do you think women dont pass numbers as well? I get one every few days at work. Theres NOTHING creepy about it. 

I know what you were referring to.  I stand by what I said: the context of where and how it happened matters.  I don't understand why that's so difficult for people to grasp. I'm glad that you're ok with what happens wherever you work.  That's not the case for a lot of people--including this reporter, clearly.

[Taylor]

39 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Hey, i just met you

And this is CRAZY

but heres my number

So call me maybe.

 

 

 

 

Thats not deviant, because it was catchy.

But kidding aside. If passing your number to a chick youre interested in is creepy, god help us all. You could say its forward. But its no different than people sending friend requests via social media. Decline them if youre not interested.

I think the lines are blurred when you have a professional relationship with that person. 

[Blarg]

19 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

And do you think women dont pass numbers as well? I get one every few days at work. Theres NOTHING creepy about it. 

Those are prostitutes trying to get you to post bail!

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, calscuf said:

I’m not defending him, but let’s not forget that in our (and most?) societies, it’s expected that men will be the ones who initiate heterosexual interpersonal contact.  And without that first person taking the initiative and attempting contact, many actual relationships (which led to most of you being alive) would not have occurred.  And men understand, as annoying as some may find it, that we are expected to assume this role.  

The problem is that there is a societal expectation (and reliance) for this behavior, but what used to be just the expected and acceptable number of females who weren’t interested in each particular man doing his “man job” of putting feelers out is now guilty of harassment.  

Callaway should have known better, as he is (probably soon “was” married) and that these women were just looking for stories for their jobs.  But for guys, we suck at deciphering female behavior and if Mickey misinterpreted these gals professional interest as “private” interest?  That make him a dumbass (and a typical man). Not a predator.

This is a remarkably naive take, and absolutely comes off as trying to make excuses for him, despite your introductory sentence.

"What if he misinterpreted..." There are FIVE women (that we know of). That's a clear pattern of behavior, not an innocent misunderstanding.

Why do people keep trying to come up with "what if" scenarios here? 

[jsnpritchett]

7 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Are you married? Have a girlfriend?  I’m sure you had to take some sort of “chance” to get her.

Though I forget often most of you are super nerds and not regular people.

Not sure why you're insulting me and others now. You continue to miss some of the major reasons why this behavior (whether we're talking about Callaway or the incident James mentioned) isn't appropriate: it's the setting, the context, and the power disparity.

Again, FIVE women (while he was married, no less). That's someone who has a problem.

Edited February 3, 2021 by jsnpritchett

[jsnpritchett]

3 minutes ago, calscuf said:

For fuck sake, if you can’t even agree that “initial contact” is a societal burden we all hetero makes have to deal with then I don’t see any reason to even argue.

That point literally has nothing whatsoever to do with any of the situations we're talking about, so I'm glad you're not going to continue.

Edited February 3, 2021 by jsnpritchett

[bruin5]

3 minutes ago, calscuf said:

For fuck sake, if you can’t even agree that “initial contact” is a societal burden we all hetero makes have to deal with then I don’t see any reason to even argue.

I’m sure that the player that passed his phone number to his coach to pass it to the female reporter was only thinking about a long term, nurturing relationship.  He really showed what a man he was..

Just join 2021. Things have changed.  Men now have responsibility to be sure to treat woman with respect.  

 

[jsnpritchett]

Just now, calscuf said:

The problem is when you are a “celeb”.  Your “crash and burns” become public.  Nobody cares about our “crash and burns”.

You have such a bizarre way of approaching this whole discussion. You and I are clearly in different universes when it comes to this.  As I said to Jinzu earlier when we reached an impasse, I don't think it's productive to continue, so I'll bow out, too.  Maybe we'll find common ground elsewhere.

[rafibomb]

[bruin5]

10 minutes ago, calscuf said:

I’m not taking about Callaway anymore.  I said he fucked up mostly because he was married.  I’m talking bigger picture and why this sort of male behavior happens.  And frankly it will keep happening because for the average guy for every 4 women who think he’s creepy, one will hook up.  That is life.

Can’t talk bigger picture if you have no clue what the actual issue is that is being discussed.  Hint: it’s not marital infidelity. 

[Angelsfan1984]

9 minutes ago, calscuf said:

Again, I’m not judging the Callaway situation, I’m making general, societal observations.  If you’ve been able to hook up and have relations with women without talking to them, without taking a chance when attempting to “break the ice” and not risking rejection in the process, awesome, give us some tips.  But if you’ve ever asked a woman out, started a random conversation with a woman with hopes of a date or simply asked a woman out on a date, then you understand my point.  

And my point, for you slow guys is this:  As long as society expects men to be the aggressors socially, these kind of bad situations are going to happen.  Because some men suck socially and don’t understand the line between “putting yourself out there” and being a creep.  Which can often be a very fine line.

If you think that line is so thin then you likely have aspbergers or are a sociopath. It is extremely apparent when females aren’t interested. That relentless pursuit to meet your own satisfaction without regard for very obvious social queues means you have mental issues. 

[tdawg87]

4 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

If you think that line is so thin then you likely have aspbergers or are a sociopath. It is extremely apparent when females aren’t interested. That relentless pursuit to meet your own satisfaction without regard for very obvious social queues means you have mental issues. 

@calscuf with aspbergers 

[Jay]

Some guys are really successful with women when they take this approach: