11-3 or we're done

[Erstad Grit]

This is where I'm at.

11-3 gets us to .500 and I'd guess we'd be about 2-3 games behind the AL West 2nd place team after that run. 

I mean if Upton/Ohtani each hit .250 that would alone make a huge difference.

Maybe Julio and Barria fix the pen.

Maybe I'm in denial but off we go

 

[failos]

You are in denial. But I’d love to be wrong

[Revad]

Well being in love with the Angels is cheaper than loving a partner.

[ukyah]

there are shades of the gambler's fallacy in this, to me.

i know it's not exactly the same, but i see it peaking through.

[Jason]

They’re already done. No need for false hope 

[Homebrewer]

This "team" is toast for this "season".. and by the looks of things, for a while.
Serious changes need to happen.

[Jason]

1 minute ago, Homebrewer said:

This "team" is toast for this season.. and by the looks of things, for a while.
Serious changes need to happen.

This team has more holes than a sponge

[robblin17]

One of the worst teams in the league is not going to go 11-3. It’s time to stop acting like the Angels are good. My question to those people would be, “Based on what?”

Everyone always talks about how good we look on paper and what if so and so produces this line, but the reality is, they never do. This team is trash.

We have some good hitters in Trout, Rendon, Fletcher, Ohtani, Goodwin, etc., but we also have some pathetic players in the lineup, too. Or certain players become pathetic when we might need them most. Also, good pitching more often than not beats good hitting. 
 

Our pitching sucks. It’s just a bunch of average to below-average joes and one guy that might exceed expectations. 

[Claude]

11 - 3

12 - 2

Let’s do this

[VariousCrap]

They are done.

This team sucks.

[wopphil]

52 minutes ago, robblin17 said:

One of the worst teams in the league is not going to go 11-3. It’s time to stop acting like the Angels are good. My question to those people would be, “Based on what?”

Everyone always talks about how good we look on paper and what if so and so produces this line, but the reality is, they never do. This team is trash.

We have some good hitters in Trout, Rendon, Fletcher, Ohtani, Goodwin, etc., but we also have some pathetic players in the lineup, too. Or certain players become pathetic when we might need them most. Also, good pitching more often than not beats good hitting. 
 

Our pitching sucks. It’s just a bunch of average to below-average joes and one guy that might exceed expectations. 

I feel this way as well. A team they can’t even put up a fight against the likes of the Seattle Mariners and the San Francisco Giants won’t be going on an 11-3 run anytime soon. 

[ukyah]

1 hour ago, Game 6 said:

If you were referencing my post then your reply is a fallacious response. 

i wasn't directly, but your post makes no sense at all even if i was. 

as i said, i'm well aware that the fallacy doesn't reaaaaally apply, but it seems like the idea that the angels are going to close out the season playing significantly well above .500 is a bit of the fallacy that the angels are "due" or something. they are a significantly under .500 team and deservedly so. i know baseball teams get hot and they get cold, but most of the time they are exactly what their overall record says they are. in an abbreviated season such as this, a one month sample size has considerably more weight.

the angels are a bad baseball team. it's not like they're out there losing heartbreakers. they play bad baseball and they lose a lot.

[Billy_Ball]

This is an asterisk season anyways.  Bring on 2021!

[ukyah]

2 hours ago, Game 6 said:

4 games out from the Orioles with 36 to go.

It’s silly to use the aspects of the gamblers fallacy when discussing live professional sports. Just Silly. And you’re a lot smarter than that  

The Angels aren’t playing against inanimate and predetermined odds like dice at the craps table or a deck of cards while playing black jack. They are playing the ultimate reality show. There are no predetermined odds. Will they go 23-13? Probably not. The team is in a funk and they kinda suck but a fan of this baseball team can hope the undetermined reality can result in a 23-13 finish. And if you can’t See the difference then maybe you should stop rooting for a team and start hanging out at casinos

 

i appreciate the compliment and the faith in my intellect. i can understand your position, but it's not about fixed odds or games of chance. the gambler's fallacy is not strictly about that. i was merely illustrating a very small point that it seemed that fans were thinking with their hearts, which is not thinking at all, that's feeling.

the angels are bad at baseball. this is unlikely to change in any statistically meaningful way over the rest of this abbreviated season. we can hope for an oakland A's run of victories, but that's just feeling again. i'd like to see it. i certainly wouldn't bet on it.

don't ever call baseball the ultimate reality show again. just. don't.

what was your old name?

[hen3ry]

I'm so disgusted by this team, I won't be going to any games this year.

Oh.  Right, sorry, I forgot.

 

[kevinb]

1 hour ago, ukyah said:

i appreciate the compliment and the faith in my intellect. i can understand your position, but it's not about fixed odds or games of chance. the gambler's fallacy is not strictly about that. i was merely illustrating a very small point that it seemed that fans were thinking with their hearts, which is not thinking at all, that's feeling.

the angels are bad at baseball. this is unlikely to change in any statistically meaningful way over the rest of this abbreviated season. we can hope for an oakland A's run of victories, but that's just feeling again. i'd like to see it. i certainly wouldn't bet on it.

don't ever call baseball the ultimate reality show again. just. don't.

what was your old name?

I’d like to know that last question as well

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, ukyah said:

as i said, i'm well aware that the fallacy doesn't reaaaaally apply, but it seems like the idea that the angels are going to close out the season playing significantly well above .500 is a bit of the fallacy that the angels are "due" or something. they are a significantly under .500 team and deservedly so.

That's the thing.  Using projected records, Pythag, base runs, all that crap...  The Angels production suggests they should be a lot better than they are..  As of this AM FG had their rest of season record as 18-17.    The Orioles for instance who would make the play-offs sit at 14-22.   The Yankees 20-16, the A's 19-16, those two teams are better than the Angels but at 18-17 the rest of the way, the production hasn't been that different.  Typically when a team has had better production than their results it's an indication that there is a dugout issue.

Does anyone really believe that Maddon has been an upgrade over Ausmus at this point?   Maddon has IMO been too cute, too willing to give non-essential players at bats, too predictably erratic.   And this isn't to say I'd rather have Ausmus than Maddon, because over the course of a 162 game season it likely all plays itself out just fine... but in this 60 game sprint, he has IMO butchered the day to day handling.   In some ways it seems like they have been going about things the same way they would in any other season when it's very clearly NOT.

Meh...  it's easy to point fingers and second guess managers always, and I rarely do but there has been a lot of weird this year..  Also a lot of bad defense too which to be honest can take stuff like Pythag and kick it in the dick.

 

[Claude]

3 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

That's the thing.  Using projected records, Pythag, base runs, all that crap...  The Angels production suggests they should be a lot better than they are..  As of this AM FG had their rest of season record as 18-17.    The Orioles for instance who would make the play-offs sit at 14-22.   The Yankees 20-16, the A's 19-16, those two teams are better than the Angels but at 18-17 the rest of the way, the production hasn't been that different.  Typically when a team has had better production than their results it's an indication that there is a dugout issue.

Does anyone really believe that Maddon has been an upgrade over Ausmus at this point?   Maddon has IMO been too cute, too willing to give non-essential players at bats, too predictably erratic.   And this isn't to say I'd rather have Ausmus than Maddon, because over the course of a 162 game season it likely all plays itself out just fine... but in this 60 game sprint, he has IMO butchered the day to day handling.   In some ways it seems like they have been going about things the same way they would in any other season when it's very clearly NOT.

Meh...  it's easy to point fingers and second guess managers always, and I rarely do but there has been a lot of weird this year..  Also a lot of bad defense too which to be honest can take stuff like Pythag and kick it in the dick.

 

I don’t give this season much credibility. It seems like everyone forgot what they learned as a team in spring training. The unscheduled three month vacation had a negative effect on this team. For some reason they just never got adjusted. Not trying to make excuses but this team never looked right when they returned from their break.

[Inside Pitch]

43 minutes ago, RendZone said:

I don’t give this season much credibility. It seems like everyone forgot what they learned as a team in spring training. The unscheduled three month vacation had a negative effect on this team. For some reason they just never got adjusted. Not trying to make excuses but this team never looked right when they returned from their break.

You're probably right that it's thrown them off, but every team had the same break in their routine.  I do believe the managerial change and the unfamiliarity that comes with it for the manager is also impacting some of the decision making but, he's wasted some innings and at bats on guys where the track records indicated maybe he should have gone with a different guy.

[Claude]

1 minute ago, Inside Pitch said:

You're probably right that it's thrown them off, but every team had the same break in their routine.  I do believe the managerial change and the unfamiliarity that comes with it for the manager is also impacting some of the decision making but, he's wasted some innings and at bats on guys where the track records indicated maybe he should have gone with a different guy.

Most of the other teams had familiarity with their Manager. The Angels as a team had about 3 weeks to get acquainted then the shutdown happened. Again I’m not making excuses but this season was a crapshoot to pull off to begin with and every organization was left to fend for themselves with very little direction from the Commissioner's office. Because of the human factor and logistics not all teams responded the same way. Hopefully next season with a full spring training and some good personnel decisions things will change.  

[Inside Pitch]

17 minutes ago, RendZone said:

Most of the other teams had familiarity with their Manager. The Angels as a team had about 3 weeks to get acquainted then the shutdown happened. Again I’m not making excuses

Mostly it sounds like we agree..   I obviously question the decisions a bit more but not enough to where I think he's a different guy than the one I kept telling everyone was a MS clone.

[Duren, Duren]

To get on winning streak you need consistent, dependable pitching and clutch hitting. Especially with men in scoring position. Not to mention being sound on defense and the bases. You simply can't beat yourself with mistakes. 

Once a small winning streak starts it can raise team morale and confidence and lead to a longer spell of winning baseball.

Even thinking positively, it's hard to project this team becoming consistently extra good for the rest of the year. We knew the pitching was going to be a problem, but thought the hitters would compensate by outscoring the runs allowed. 

The team scores, but often not in clutch, game changing situations. And no one factored in defense and base running that would directly lead to losses. 

A lot was expected from Maddon. A change of culture. Innovative strategy. A boost in team morale. Underwhelming in a game by game basis. As if he's in an experimental mindset and his intuition and instincts still a work in progress. 

Empirically, for the club to finish above .500 each game has to be treated as a war. Intense focus in clutch situations. Pitchers able to work out of jams and keep the scores respectable. Hitters coming through in close games and driving in runs. Maybe some unexpected in game strategy moves, like more bunting, hit and run, stolen bases. Even more pinch running and earlier defensive changes.

They need a real shakeup to get out of this defeatist lethargy. Players have to be selfless, forget about personal stats, slumps and what happened the game before. Go out and isolate on each inning and build from there. Momentum starts modestly, but can grow from there. 

[thebloob]

I’ve always felt that managers in general are overrated as to their effect.   Maddon may be the most recent grossly overrated manager.  Ultimately the manager is a product of the talent.  They might try to reply that talent in more favorable ways but I think this affects less games than thought.  Too much blame for losing.  Too much credit for winning.  Ausmus, Maddon, Scioscia would have the same results with this team.  

[Mark68]

I'm gonna call it now, down 9-1 in the 5th inning of the 26th game of a 60-game season. They're done.