Pitching

[The Ryan Express]

I just cannot understand Eppler's inability to improve this pitching staff. It's almost appears as if he is clueless at times. I think Heaney may finally break out and is the obvious ace of the staff with Ohtani out. I like the Julio Teheran signing and the Bundy trade, but both the starting staff and bullpen still remain horrible. The bullpen has a good chance of bringing back the nickname Arson Squad. You would think he would be scouring the waiver and trade wires, obviously trades would be the harder of these 2, but there has been some interesting waiver players available and he has passed on,  Carson Fulmer, 8th overall pick in 2015, 26 years old, and Detroit gobbled him up, but maybe a trade could have been made. Mike Foltynewicz, 19th overall pick in 2010, 28 years old and a top of the rotation ace, who yes lost velocity last year , but has had no major arm injury that I am aware of. He went unclaimed. White Sox release Kelvin Herrera several days ago and the Cubs apparently signed him today, here's a former closer that I believe could have stepped in to help the bullpen. He is only 30

These are just a few examples, now I'm not saying to go out and sign everybody waived from other teams, but there are a few I think we should take a feeler on, many times a change of scenery are needed and working with a new pitching coach can help find the tweak that turns things around. Just my thoughts for a staff with 4.90 ERA, 1.51 Whip and more blown saves than saves and the greatest player on the planet in centerfield. C'mon Billy pull out all the stops and lets see if we can just find one diamond out there.

 

[NrM]

19 minutes ago, The Ryan Express said:

ust my thoughts for a staff with 4.90 ERA, 1.51 Whip and more blown saves than saves and the greatest player on the planet in centerfield. C'mon Billy pull out all the stops and lets see if we can just find one diamond out there.

Who's to say Bundy isn't that diamond? He's been our best pitcher thus far.

But yeah I get what you're saying. If we didn't have the SP/RP depth in the minors(which we don't) then he should've added more pieces. Maybe the money spent on Rendon would've been better spent towards 2-3 arms.

[rafibomb]

If this is your first post after a complete game gem by Bundy I don't want to imagine what your post would have been after any of our other games.

[Lou]

Our #1-4 starting pitchers have a combined ERA of 3.07 

[Lou]

Carson Fulmer is terrible, btw.  

Also, CWS manager on dumping Herrera:

The Cubs have signed relievers Kelvin Herrera and Matt Dermody to minor league deals, the club announced Thursday.

The White Sox designated Herrera for assignment last week after an ineffective stint in their bullpen. The right-hander finished 2019 with a 6.14 ERA in 57 appearances, surrendering 35 earned runs in 51 1/3 innings. He's allowed four earned runs in two outings (2 1/3 innings) this season, giving up two home runs.

Herrera, the once-dominant Royals reliever, saw his 2018 season end early with a foot injury. He spent time on the injured list last season with a right oblique strain. 

“We were hoping to see a little bit more out of him,” White Sox manager Rick Renteria said Friday. “I know everybody was kind of behind the 8-ball. But we gave him the whole year last year to kind of work through the foot injury and try to settle in. He left camp still right around 91 miles an hour, still wasn't the same guy that everybody was used to seeing the previous years of his service."

[GrittyVeterans]

So far I am more disappointed in the Angels offense than the pitching. The bullpen is a disaster obviously but the starters are a nice surprise.

 

We'll see how it progresses but I think the Angels will make the playoffs. With the expanded playoffs it feels like we're good enough to get in and see what happens. 

 

The big thing is that we got the Rendon injury and Trout absence out of the way early and we have a chance to make up ground now. 

Time to go on a winning streak and get above .500

[Inside Pitch]

5 hours ago, The Ryan Express said:

I just cannot understand Eppler's inability to improve this pitching staff. It's almost appears as if he is clueless at times. I think Heaney may finally break out and is the obvious ace of the staff with Ohtani out. I like the Julio Teheran signing and the Bundy trade, but both the starting staff and bullpen still remain horrible. The bullpen has a good chance of bringing back the nickname Arson Squad. You would think he would be scouring the waiver and trade wires, obviously trades would be the harder of these 2, but there has been some interesting waiver players available and he has passed on,  Carson Fulmer, 8th overall pick in 2015, 26 years old, and Detroit gobbled him up, but maybe a trade could have been made. Mike Foltynewicz, 19th overall pick in 2010, 28 years old and a top of the rotation ace, who yes lost velocity last year , but has had no major arm injury that I am aware of. He went unclaimed. White Sox release Kelvin Herrera several days ago and the Cubs apparently signed him today, here's a former closer that I believe could have stepped in to help the bullpen. He is only 30

These are just a few examples, now I'm not saying to go out and sign everybody waived from other teams, but there are a few I think we should take a feeler on, many times a change of scenery are needed and working with a new pitching coach can help find the tweak that turns things around. Just my thoughts for a staff with 4.90 ERA, 1.51 Whip and more blown saves than saves and the greatest player on the planet in centerfield. C'mon Billy pull out all the stops and lets see if we can just find one diamond out there.

Glad you got your mulligan out of the way -- welcome to the site.

[totdprods]

Still feel there’s a lot of overreaction going on. We’re 14 games in. Yes, with a ~60 game season, they’re not doing good. They’re digging themselves into a hole. The stakes have changed because the season is shortened, but the game really has not. 
 

1) The starters have been pulled too early, too often. Just like in a typical season, they’re likely still a little limited on pitch counts. 
2) Rendon missed several games, Trout missed several games, Upton is still MIA. 
3) Ohtani was terrible on the mound and it further impacted his ability to contribute offensively. 
4) The pen has been overworked. And Robles, specifically the guy we expected to shine in high-leverage moments, has been terrible. Aside from him, I don’t think the pen has been particularly bad - every reliever has had a poor game so far. That’s typical. It’s just amplified in a 60-game season.

It’s such a weird year this year that I don’t really have expectations. I’m just glad I have baseball to watch. Hopefully it’s a big year for the kids to develop. Maybe we stumble into the playoffs and the offense gets hot and we go on a little run. Hopefully 2021 comes around and we can have a normal season. 

[Bronson]

4 hours ago, Lou said:

Carson Fulmer is terrible, btw.  

Also, CWS manager on dumping Herrera:

The Cubs have signed relievers Kelvin Herrera and Matt Dermody to minor league deals, the club announced Thursday.

The White Sox designated Herrera for assignment last week after an ineffective stint in their bullpen. The right-hander finished 2019 with a 6.14 ERA in 57 appearances, surrendering 35 earned runs in 51 1/3 innings. He's allowed four earned runs in two outings (2 1/3 innings) this season, giving up two home runs.

Herrera, the once-dominant Royals reliever, saw his 2018 season end early with a foot injury. He spent time on the injured list last season with a right oblique strain. 

“We were hoping to see a little bit more out of him,” White Sox manager Rick Renteria said Friday. “I know everybody was kind of behind the 8-ball. But we gave him the whole year last year to kind of work through the foot injury and try to settle in. He left camp still right around 91 miles an hour, still wasn't the same guy that everybody was used to seeing the previous years of his service."

After reading that, I’m surprised the Angels didn’t pick him up.

[zenmaster]

We've got an outfield logjam so this offseason I think we need to flip one of Marsh/Adams for some pitching to start.

[Blarg]

Just finding one diamond out there in Mount Bandini is pretty tough considering 29 other GMs are all searching the same turd pile.

I've said it before, relief pitchers are flakes. They didn't get their position by having the best skills or consistency as starters. You can probably count on your hand how many have shown consistency over a five year period before tanking. The rest are flashes of quality for at best a three year span but most barely get through one before losing whatever skills they had.

So to build a pen can be the most frustrating job in baseball. Even moreso now that analytics have dictated the abundant use of a pen that just a decade ago had a very limited roll. The expectation is no pitcher gives up any runs and to make it more of a crap shoot four pitchers (variables) or more are put into play each game. You can't be perfect at craps every roll. 

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

We've got an outfield logjam so this offseason I think we need to flip one of Marsh/Adams for some pitching to start.

I think this is pretty possible, I just hope we don’t overpay simply to try and win this year only. I trust Eppler though. He’s pretty solid when it comes to trading prospects. Just hope he doesn’t do anything drastic since it could be his last year here.

[Stradling]

46 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

We've got an outfield logjam so this offseason I think we need to flip one of Marsh/Adams for some pitching to start.

I think it is going to be Goodwin that is traded first.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

Still feel there’s a lot of overreaction going on. We’re 14 games in. Yes, with a ~60 game season, they’re not doing good. They’re digging themselves into a hole. The stakes have changed because the season is shortened, but the game really has not. 
 

1) The starters have been pulled too early, too often. Just like in a typical season, they’re likely still a little limited on pitch counts. 
2) Rendon missed several games, Trout missed several games, Upton is still MIA. 
3) Ohtani was terrible on the mound and it further impacted his ability to contribute offensively. 
4) The pen has been overworked. And Robles, specifically the guy we expected to shine in high-leverage moments, has been terrible. Aside from him, I don’t think the pen has been particularly bad - every reliever has had a poor game so far. That’s typical. It’s just amplified in a 60-game season.

It’s such a weird year this year that I don’t really have expectations. I’m just glad I have baseball to watch. Hopefully it’s a big year for the kids to develop. Maybe we stumble into the playoffs and the offense gets hot and we go on a little run. Hopefully 2021 comes around and we can have a normal season. 

Good post @totdprods.

[Angels in 2030]

I don't blame Eppler here that much.  He was limited when he came in due to a horrible farm system and limited funds (with bloated payroll).  So he had to find peanuts everywhere and reclamation projects.  He's done a very good job with those limited funds and assets -- especially in the BP.  But this offseason was the year...and he failed.  But maybe some of that was out of his hands (can't force guys to sign here) and he did get Rendon.  But there is a case to be made that he should have used some funds this offseason to help the BP.  That's a hard thing to do because BP guys are so hit/miss from year-to-year.  So i don't blame him there either.

Trades for SP are hard to do -- especially when most our top guys are so young and at low levels.  So again, can't blame him too much.  Do you really want him to gut the fragile farm syste, by giving up 4-5 guys?  No.

Where i do blame him his via the draft and international.  Failing to use 1st round picks (until 2020) on Ps was a fail imo.  Even some of the 2-5th round picks the past 4 drafts....more should have gone to Ps.  Just my opinion.  Whether those guys are SPs or turned into top RPs.  All our RPs being brought up seem to be middle inning RP types; not impact arms.  Imagine a May or Civale on this team.  Or just a top young near 100 mph throwing closer type RP.   

[zenmaster]

50 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I think it is going to be Goodwin that is traded first.

I'd imagine Goodwin isn't nearly as valuable as the others but if he careers in these next 40 games or whatever, maybe. Maybe we can convince someone to take on Upton if we give them Marsh. 

[Stradling]

Just now, zenmaster said:

I'd imagine Goodwin isn't nearly as valuable as the others but if he careers in these next 40 games or whatever, maybe. Maybe we can convince someone to take on Upton if we give them Marsh. 

My point is trade him to a team that needs offense now and Goodwin has two years of control.  Trade him for a major league ready arm. 

[Claude]

 

[Angel Oracle]

7 hours ago, Lou said:

Carson Fulmer is terrible, btw.  

Also, CWS manager on dumping Herrera:

The Cubs have signed relievers Kelvin Herrera and Matt Dermody to minor league deals, the club announced Thursday.

The White Sox designated Herrera for assignment last week after an ineffective stint in their bullpen. The right-hander finished 2019 with a 6.14 ERA in 57 appearances, surrendering 35 earned runs in 51 1/3 innings. He's allowed four earned runs in two outings (2 1/3 innings) this season, giving up two home runs.

Herrera, the once-dominant Royals reliever, saw his 2018 season end early with a foot injury. He spent time on the injured list last season with a right oblique strain. 

“We were hoping to see a little bit more out of him,” White Sox manager Rick Renteria said Friday. “I know everybody was kind of behind the 8-ball. But we gave him the whole year last year to kind of work through the foot injury and try to settle in. He left camp still right around 91 miles an hour, still wasn't the same guy that everybody was used to seeing the previous years of his service."

 Yep, Herrera would have ended up being a not so clean peanut.   Another Cody Allen disaster 

[Angel Oracle]

2 hours ago, Blarg said:

Just finding one diamond out there in Mount Bandini is pretty tough considering 29 other GMs are all searching the same turd pile.

I've said it before, relief pitchers are flakes. They didn't get their position by having the best skills or consistency as starters. You can probably count on your hand how many have shown consistency over a five year period before tanking. The rest are flashes of quality for at best a three year span but most barely get through one before losing whatever skills they had.

So to build a pen can be the most frustrating job in baseball. Even moreso now that analytics have dictated the abundant use of a pen that just a decade ago had a very limited roll. The expectation is no pitcher gives up any runs and to make it more of a crap shoot four pitchers (variables) or more are put into play each game. You can't be perfect at craps every roll. 

This is true.    The question then is, which teams have been the most successful over the past decade, with the emergence of shorter starter innings?   Those teams are the ones Eppler may need to study.

And admittedly, the starters going deeper into games wouldn't hurt at all.  Can't have continual 4-5 innings tops outings.   Bundy is at least a breath of fresh air, there.  How soon before Heaney and Canning can get to averaging 6 innings/start? 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Angel Oracle]

53 minutes ago, Fourts said:

I don't blame Eppler here that much.  He was limited when he came in due to a horrible farm system and limited funds (with bloated payroll).  So he had to find peanuts everywhere and reclamation projects.  He's done a very good job with those limited funds and assets -- especially in the BP.  But this offseason was the year...and he failed.  But maybe some of that was out of his hands (can't force guys to sign here) and he did get Rendon.  But there is a case to be made that he should have used some funds this offseason to help the BP.  That's a hard thing to do because BP guys are so hit/miss from year-to-year.  So i don't blame him there either.

Trades for SP are hard to do -- especially when most our top guys are so young and at low levels.  So again, can't blame him too much.  Do you really want him to gut the fragile farm syste, by giving up 4-5 guys?  No.

Where i do blame him his via the draft and international.  Failing to use 1st round picks (until 2020) on Ps was a fail imo.  Even some of the 2-5th round picks the past 4 drafts....more should have gone to Ps.  Just my opinion.  Whether those guys are SPs or turned into top RPs.  All our RPs being brought up seem to be middle inning RP types; not impact arms.  Imagine a May or Civale on this team.  Or just a top young near 100 mph throwing closer type RP.   

We don't need any more 1st round OFers for a while, that much is for sure.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[Duren, Duren]

Maddon is still on a learning curve with the pitchers. Especially with a new pitching coach who isn't familiar with the staff. In a regular season there would be time enough to adjust and adapt, but everything is magnified now. 

But Rendon really is the key to the rest of the season. He was given an elite superstar contract. You can cut him some slack for the injury related slow start, but he has to start producing as expected.

On paper Fletcher, Trout and Rendon are about as good a top three batting order as you can find. Rendon in peak form can be a catalyst that cashes in the other two when on base  as well as extending rallies that gives the mid part of the order more RBI opportunities.

Traditionally third place in the batting order is for the best hitter. If Rendon reverts to form the offense should score enough to compensate for a weak bullpen. 

 

[eligrba]

10 hours ago, The Ryan Express said:

I just cannot understand Eppler's inability to improve this pitching staff. It's almost appears as if he is clueless at times. I think Heaney may finally break out and is the obvious ace of the staff with Ohtani out. I like the Julio Teheran signing and the Bundy trade, but both the starting staff and bullpen still remain horrible. The bullpen has a good chance of bringing back the nickname Arson Squad. You would think he would be scouring the waiver and trade wires, obviously trades would be the harder of these 2, but there has been some interesting waiver players available and he has passed on,  Carson Fulmer, 8th overall pick in 2015, 26 years old, and Detroit gobbled him up, but maybe a trade could have been made. Mike Foltynewicz, 19th overall pick in 2010, 28 years old and a top of the rotation ace, who yes lost velocity last year , but has had no major arm injury that I am aware of. He went unclaimed. White Sox release Kelvin Herrera several days ago and the Cubs apparently signed him today, here's a former closer that I believe could have stepped in to help the bullpen. He is only 30

These are just a few examples, now I'm not saying to go out and sign everybody waived from other teams, but there are a few I think we should take a feeler on, many times a change of scenery are needed and working with a new pitching coach can help find the tweak that turns things around. Just my thoughts for a staff with 4.90 ERA, 1.51 Whip and more blown saves than saves and the greatest player on the planet in centerfield. C'mon Billy pull out all the stops and lets see if we can just find one diamond out there.

 

Because you are new, let me help when trying to understand shitty Angel performances:

1. It’s the owner's fault

2. It’s the GM‘s fault

3. It’s the manager‘s fault

4. It’s the coach‘s fault

5. It’s Albert‘s fault

 

These explanations can be used in any order depending on the narrative you desire. 
 

Welcome.

[eligrba]

24 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

We don't need any more 1st round OFers for a while, that much is for sure.  disappointments.

FIFY

[Mark68]

9 hours ago, NrM said:

Who's to say Bundy isn't that diamond? He's been our best pitcher thus far.

But yeah I get what you're saying. If we didn't have the SP/RP depth in the minors(which we don't) then he should've added more pieces. Maybe the money spent on Rendon would've been better spent towards 2-3 arms.

We got 2-3 arms. Maybe you've heard of them--Bundy & Teheran. 

 

Where Eppler has failed is certainly getting enough bullpen depth to deal with the new norm--5-6 IP starts.