The Trade Simmons Crowd

[Stradling]

Have you guys considered how bad the left side of the infield defense would be if we moved Simmons? The separation at SS defensively between Simmons and Fletcher is huge.  Fletcher is a guy that can fill in at SS at the major league level, but he certainly isn’t an everyday SS.  Maybe that is just because of what we have seen defensively the last 15 years Simmons, Aybar and OCab.  All have big arms and lots of range.  Fletcher has an adequate arm for 3rd or 2nd, but SS is a different beast.  Now as big of a drop off it is from Simmons to Fletcher, it will be even a bigger drop off from Fletcher to Thaiss or La Stella.  We would go from one of the best defensive left sides of the infield to perhaps the worst.  Just some thoughts.  

[Kendo36]

It’s a dumb idea as we will never get equal return and then leave a gaping hole defensively 

[nate]

He had a down year so no chance you get enough to make it worth it.  Plus the Angels would need a SS like @Stradling said.  It is never good to let a contract lapse, but you can't afford to trade him.

[Jay]

4 minutes ago, Kendo36 said:

It’s a dumb idea as we will never get equal return and then leave a gaping hole defensively 

Agree it's not clear what we could get in return, and the defense would suffer.

I wouldn't rule it out though.

 

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

Simmons is 30 years old, just had an injury filled season in which he was bad offensively and he has one year left on his contract.  The Angels have to decide if he fits into their plans beyond 2020, if he does what they're willing to pay and for how many years.  If the answer to those questions is no or not enough to get an extension done then it makes sense to see what they can get for him via trade rather than let him walk next year.  I think some people are approaching it from the fact that he's making 15M next year and the Angels have quite a few holes they need to fill with limited resources.  I've got no issue if he's here beyond next year but it comes down to price and length of contract while it's always a risk signing a guy in his early 30's to a multiyear contract especially one who just had an injury filled season.

[Stradling]

The top 2 free agent SS, if you were to trade Simmons, are Didi Gregorious who is the same age as Simmons, and Jose Iglesias who is also the same age.  With a guy like Iglesias you can get him for one year.  Didi will get a 3-5 year deal.  

[Vegas Halo Fan]

3 minutes ago, Stradling said:

The top 2 free agent SS, if you were to trade Simmons, are Didi Gregorious who is the same age as Simmons, and Jose Iglesias who is also the same age.  With a guy like Iglesias you can get him for one year.  Didi will get a 3-5 year deal.  

And the Yankees don't lose anyone who they want to keep.

[Dtwncbad]

I understand the point that defense at shortstop is important and Simmons is the best.  I understand the point that it defense has an effect on wins and losses.

But let’s just also acknowledge that every team that made the playoffs didn’t have Simmons.

You can win without Simmons.

[Lou]

the injury-plagued Simmons started 20 more games than Didi this year

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand the point that defense at shortstop is important and Simmons is the best.  I understand the point that it defense has an effect on wins and losses.

But let’s just also acknowledge that every team that made the playoffs didn’t have Simmons.

You can win without Simmons.

they also didn't have Trout, so . . . 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand the point that defense at shortstop is important and Simmons is the best.  I understand the point that it defense has an effect on wins and losses.

But let’s just also acknowledge that every team that made the playoffs didn’t have Simmons.

You can win without Simmons.

Ok, now tell me how many teams make the playoffs with a shitty left side of the infield defense.  

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Ok, now tell me how many teams make the playoffs with a shitty left side of the infield defense.  

I said I get your point.  You have a legit point.  But just saying you could make roster moves to improve the team that includes trading Simmons.

I really like him.  I just don’t consider him untouchable.

[TBailey]

9 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I understand the point that defense at shortstop is important and Simmons is the best.  I understand the point that it defense has an effect on wins and losses.

But let’s just also acknowledge that every team that made the playoffs didn’t have Simmons.

You can win without Simmons.

Disagreed

[TBailey]

If the Angels were going to trade Simmons, they would have already done it. Dude is staying. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 minutes ago, TBailey said:

If the Angels were going to trade Simmons, they would have already done it. Dude is staying. 

I hope so.  My first choice by far is to build the team around him (and Trout and others).

 

[Lou]

Trading Simmons would be so f'n stupid. 

[Dtwncbad]

1 minute ago, Lou said:

Trading Simmons would be so f'n stupid. 

. . . If the trade didn’t make the team better.

[Lou]

1 minute ago, Dtwncbad said:

. . . If the trade didn’t make the team better.

it wouldn't

[John Taylor]

Arms are more at a premium than a SS, even if he is one of the top Shortstops in the game, we would probably have to throw in some prospects to get any kind of decent return. Honestly the free agent market route + keeping Simmons is a better plan.

[floplag]

I think this is one of those things that people are over thinking.  There is literally zero reason to trade him right now.  Maybe we should not try to create more issues.

[totdprods]

I hear this Zack Cozart fella is a pretty good defensive SS!

*ducks*

[Claude]

Didi is pretty good defensively but he’s also a nice left handed bat with better mechanics at the plate. Plus he’s already had Tommy John surgery.

[Dick B Back]

39 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

But let’s just also acknowledge that every team that made the playoffs didn’t have Assmus.

FIFY

[totdprods]

FWIW, should Simmons be traded (or injured, or whatever) I actually like Rengifo at SS much more than Fletcher. Rengifo has a lot of work ahead of him, but there were many moments last year when I saw him want to be that guy at SS. He's so young still - there's potential there. And I hate saying it, but if Cozart does wind up healthy and on the team next year, he could still have a chance at offering some value as a glove-first SS. Not what I'd want, but it's not something to outright dismiss, unless his injuries have just totally sapped any potential for that even - and that's possible.

And I will say that, let's say for some reason Simmons is traded - presumably, it's for...
1) an MLB-ready top-tier SP prospect...you're getting someone with no payroll obstructions and freeing up $15m on top of the $50m or whatever we're at. We can afford to find some defensive help in the IF, even if it's just an Iglesias/Hechevarria type, and still spend away on SP. 

2) an MLB vet SP like DeSclafani...you're not getting much in financial savings as it will be someone far along in arb, but you're checking off a need in one move without spending extra money. They can still afford another SP, maybe two, and just cross their fingers at SS, or they can add one SS and consider someone perhaps like Donaldson, or even Rendon, if they miss out on the top FA SPs, and let the improved 3B defense mask some of the loss at SS. For instance, let's say they whiff on all the top arms and instead, it's Donaldson, DeSclafani, Wheeler, or Rendon, DeSclafani, and someone like Odorizzi. I don't think that would be anyone's top choice, but I don't think that would in any way be a bad team. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by totdprods

[Jay]

57 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

You can win without Simmons.

We've yet to prove that...