The Trade Simmons Crowd

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, angelsnationtalk said:

To be honest i've loved what i've seen fro Fletcher at SS. Obviously we all compare him to Simmons which is why no one thinks he can handle it...

I dont think anyone doubts he can handle the position, it's more a case of Simmons is a legit difference maker there defensively -- Fletcher isn't (0 DRS at SS albeit under 300 innings).   Put him at 2B, plus 6 DRS or 3B, plus 9 DRS and Fletcher looks amazing. 

So again -- it's about weakening two spots.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You're a fatal error. 

Dad, is that you????

[eligrba]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

They’re absolutely guilty of wasting Simmons.  It is what it is.  He’s an asset that might have more value in a trade then in whatever they do in 2020.  I think the reality is that Simmons probably does not line up with what we’re hoping is a win widow for the Angels.  We don’t need to commit a significant contract to a guy with extremely speculative value due to regression right when the team finally starts getting going.  
 

and I disagree strongly that Fletcher can’t play short stop every day.  I think he can at an above average level.  Rengifo can also ably play short.

The other intangible Simmons brings to the team is his baseball IQ and work ethic.  Whether or not Simmons plays shortstop for the rest of his career, the Angels would be smart to have him around.

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You're a fatal error. 

That said, this is one of the reasons why I'm upgrade and moving AW today! 

 

Were moving to Vegas!

[T.G.]

4 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You're a fatal error.

That hurts me deeply.

[Chuck]

The other two concerning factors for me have been mentioned but need to be stressed again and that is.

Simba is getting older and has been incredibly injury prone. 

His offensive contributions have declined.

How much $$ is he worth to extend and isn't it worth spending that money on starting pitching and getting Trout some legit protection in the lineup outside of Upton and Ohtani?

[UndertheHalo]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

The other intangible Simmons brings to the team is his baseball IQ and work ethic.  Whether or not Simmons plays shortstop for the rest of his career, the Angels would be smart to have him around.

So how much are you wanting to commit to having locker room guy Simmons around when the Angels don’t have a 1B or a catcher or 3 starting pitchers and could probably use another bullpen arm ? Also, this assuming everything works out with Adell and Upton still has a few decent years left. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by UndertheHalo

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

You're a fatal error. 

That said, this is one of the reasons why I'm upgrading and moving AW today! 

 

Wait!!! I am not finished packing!!!

Will you also be moving @tdawg87's bunk?

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, UndertheHalo said:

So how much are you wanting to commit to having locker room guy Simmons around when the Angels don’t have a 1B or a catcher or 3 starting pitchers and could probably use another bullpen arm ? 

[beatlesrule]

Extend Simmons.

[Inside Pitch]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

How long do you guys plan on penciling in Simmons at SS for ? Can the Angels not have 36 year olds somewhere on the diamond at some point,  please ?

Considering he wouldn't be in his age 36 season for another 6 seasons...     Extend him for two years, he's 33 by the time the deal is over.   Three years puts him at 34.  So the question becomes, do they believe his defense will fall off the cliff in his age 32-33 seasons.

[floplag]

Just now, Chuckster70 said:

The other two concerning factors for me have been mentioned but need to be stressed again and that is.

Simba is getting older and has been incredibly injury prone. 

His offensive contributions have declined.

How much $$ is he worth to extend and isn't it worth spending that money on starting pitching and getting Trout some legit protection in the lineup outside of Upton and Ohtani?

For me this is why we need to look at potential offensive upgrades at other spots, such as C or maybe 3B, Rendon, to maximize his defense.  WE have young pitchers, that wont change regardless of who we sign, rock solid D up the middle or anywhere on the field cannot be over stated.  

[T.G.]

Just now, eligrba said:

Wait!!! I am not finished packing!!!

Will you also be moving @tdawg87's bunk?

Hazmat is taking care of that.

[Adam]

Simmons would be far more valuable at a trade deadline than in an off-season. He'd be a great piece to move if the Angels shit the bed next year

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, True Grich said:

That hurts me deeply.

[Stradling]

I think, just like Upton, this year the injuries are what caused the offensive decline.  Healthy they’ll both be solid.   If Simmons is gone and we go in house or sign a Moustakas to play 3rd, the opponent’s are going to score 15-20 more runs. 

[Stradling]

3 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So how much are you wanting to commit to having locker room guy Simmons around when the Angels don’t have a 1B or a catcher or 3 starting pitchers and could probably use another bullpen arm ? 

Stop with the locker room guy nonsense.  He is the best SS in the game defensively.   He will be above average there for a few more years.  

[angelsnationtalk]

3 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

The other two concerning factors for me have been mentioned but need to be stressed again and that is.

Simba is getting older and has been incredibly injury prone. 

His offensive contributions have declined.

How much $$ is he worth to extend and isn't it worth spending that money on starting pitching and getting Trout some legit protection in the lineup outside of Upton and Ohtani?

I feel like you and I are the only ones agreeing with this..

[T.G.]

1 minute ago, Chuckster70 said:

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, Adam said:

... if the Angels shit the bed next year

I just told you that HAZMAT is taking care of tdawg's bunk.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

How much $$ is he worth to extend and isn't it worth spending that money on starting pitching and getting Trout some legit protection in the lineup outside of Upton and Ohtani?

How much run production do you think it will take to offset the loss of run prevention? -- find the answer that and figure out the costs to add that run production then compare it to the costs it would take to pay for that run prevention -- that's the game MLB GMs are playing now.    I'm not being a wise ass, I don't think any of us has the info to make that call, but the fixating on the offensive side of things is a mistake.  This is where those teams like Oakland and Tampa Bay take advantage of the rest of MLB.    

Run prevention has a greater impact on winning than run production does.    This is not one of those things that is opinion based it's been mathed out to hell and back and the results are overwhelmingly convincing.7

[T.G.]

2 minutes ago, angelsnationtalk said:

I feel like you and I are the only ones agreeing with this..

[UndertheHalo]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Considering he wouldn't be in his age 36 season for another 6 seasons...     Extend him for two years, he's 33 by the time the deal is over.   Three years puts him at 34.  So the question becomes, do they believe his defense will fall off the cliff in his age 32-33 seasons.

I was being a little facetious.  But the point stands.  I am very concerned about regression with Simmons.  The numbers say he’s regressing defensively.  And the bat you don’t need any numbers you can just watch the guy play.  I’m not saying that Simmons isn’t capable of still being a very good player in the short term.  I think the 2019 season was kind of lost to injuries.  But I do think that the regression is real, he’s never been a great bat and I don’t anticipate a return to the modest bat that he was a couple of years ago.  And I don think he will or should take a 2 year deal.  Once you’re talking about the kind of deal he’s probably rightly going to pursue I think you very seriously have to think about getting what you can for him and parting ways. 

[eligrba]

11 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

So how much are you wanting to commit to having locker room guy Simmons around when the Angels don’t have a 1B or a catcher or 3 starting pitchers and could probably use another bullpen arm ? 

I think the financial obligations would pale in the benefits the organization receives from connecting Simmons to the Angels forever.  To me, building a winning tradition is not only determined by winning games but also with the approach by the entire organization.  The Angels have not been very good about developing such a culture because of their reliance on mostly free agents.  We all look back to 2002 and that team and wish some of those players would return in the hope that their success rubs off.  Simmons may be expensive, but I think he can play and contribute for a long time.  You ask a legitimate question and I do not have an answer that balances the financial ledger.

Edited October 11, 2019 by eligrba

[UndertheHalo]

6 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Stop with the locker room guy nonsense.  He is the best SS in the game defensively.   He will be above average there for a few more years.  

Read the comment I was responding to.  He made his whole point about Simmons locker room presence.