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Beltre Retires


Dtwncbad

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He was never an Angel but he was one of the players I was most disappointed the Angels did not sign.  He was a perfect fit.

I don't blame him for going to Texas though.  That is a great place to hit and the second he signed with Texas I knew he was on his best path to the HOF.

I completely respect this guy for being a complete player and leader and having the ability to be intense and clearly have fun at the same time.

Congratulations on a HOF career.  I just wish he had spent to last 8 years with the Angels instead.

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I can only think the best thing for Beltre's career was to have been hit in the ballsack which put him on a steroid prescription from 2010 on.

If you look at his career his first 12 seasons he had an OPS+ of 105 before the surgery. The following 9 years he plays to a 130 OPS+. It was all steroid driven. There is simply no way to deny it, Beltre's got to cheat aging and pump up his career numbers.

He is not in any Hall of Fame conversations without his roids. 

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It's funny... when Beltre was a FA after his time in Seattle I remember the overwhelming opinion was that he was over-rated because he was never ever able to duplicate his one great season in LA. 

Exceptional performer for years... I think he's definitely in the HOF.

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20 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I can only think the best thing for Beltre's career was to have been hit in the ballsack which put him on a steroid prescription from 2010 on.

If you look at his career his first 12 seasons he had an OPS+ of 105 before the surgery. The following 9 years he plays to a 130 OPS+. It was all steroid driven. There is simply no way to deny it, Beltre's got to cheat aging and pump up his career numbers.

He is not in any Hall of Fame conversations without his roids. 

Well actually he is in every Hall of Fame discussion, first ballot, and you will be in the minority on making steroids an issue here with your contrived claims related to a post-surgery medical prescription.

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22 minutes ago, True Grich said:

It's funny... when Beltre was a FA after his time in Seattle I remember the overwhelming opinion was that he was over-rated because he was never ever able to duplicate his one great season in LA. 

Exceptional performer for years... I think he's definitely in the HOF.

Advanced metrics actually show he was pretty solid in Seattle. It was hard for right handers to hit there. He averaged about 4 war a year while in Seattle.

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If we signed him, we would have kept Napoli and not had, sigh, Vernon Wells.

Napoli was more or less the Texas MVP.  Subtracting him would have us in the race in the AL West.  

Not being desperate to catch up, we wouldn't have signed Pujols.  Overpaying more than Texas for Beltre would have been a slightly discounted, better performing Pujols at a position we would always have in need, at half the contract rate. 

Not signing Beltre is easily the worst Angel move in history since letting Ryan go elsewhere and possibly of all time. 

 

Vernon Wells......... yuck

edit:  Pujols is well known for leaving the team that he came up with and loved, and guess who Trout has been talking to since he came up.   You could have a conspiracy theory that not signing Beltre lead to influence Trout to leave the Angels

Edited by notherhalo
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19 minutes ago, True Grich said:

It's funny... when Beltre was a FA after his time in Seattle I remember the overwhelming opinion was that he was over-rated because he was never ever able to duplicate his one great season in LA. 

Exceptional performer for years... I think he's definitely in the HOF.

I mean, he *was* overrated - until he left Seattle.

Can't help but wonder - I was skeptical that he was a product of Fenway, so wasn't entirely miffed when we didn't get him.   In retrospect, though, not only would he have given us a solid 8 years, we probably wouldn't have signed Pujols. 

Addition *and* addition-by-subtraction - our team trajectory would look *much* different ...

 

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11 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Well actually he is in every Hall of Fame discussion, first ballot, and you will be in the minority on making steroids an issue here with your contrived claims related to a post-surgery medical prescription.

It's not contrived. It's easy to see facts on his career slash line before nutsack removal and after. He is the only player with a medical pass to use roids at his Doctor's discretion. In other words completely unchecked. Without the boost he's out of baseball 6 years ago with a middling career based on defense only. 

His career before roids .270/.325/.453/.779. That's not on the ballot.

His career for the 8 years after roids .307/.358/.514/.872. That is what you remember.

Yeah, he got a medical pass that very few fans even know about so there won't be any Bonds or Clemens speculation but he got the same unequal benefits. The difference is Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Fame bound before they juiced. Beltre never was. 

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12 minutes ago, notherhalo said:

If we signed him, we would have kept Napoli and not had, sigh, Vernon Wells.

Napoli was out the door whether they signed Beltre or not. With the money committed to Beltre the Angels wouldn't have gone for Wells sized contract. 

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3 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It's not contrived. It's easy to see facts on his career slash line before nutsack removal and after. He is the only player with a medical pass to use roids at his Doctor's discretion. In other words completely unchecked. Without the boost he's out of baseball 6 years ago with a middling career based on defense only. 

His career before roids .270/.325/.453/.779. That's not on the ballot.

His career for the 8 years after roids .307/.358/.514/.872. That is what you remember.

Yeah, he got a medical pass that very few fans even know about so there won't be any Bonds or Clemens speculation but he got the same unequal benefits. The difference is Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Fame bound before they juiced. Beltre never was. 

So, what you are saying is he had a legitimate, verifiable reason for being prescribed supplementation known and approved by the MLB and monitored by a doctor...whereas Clemens and Bonds did not?

Also, while the fans may not be as aware of it...I'm sure the baseball writers are

  

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8 minutes ago, Blarg said:

It's not contrived. It's easy to see facts on his career slash line before nutsack removal and after. He is the only player with a medical pass to use roids at his Doctor's discretion. In other words completely unchecked. Without the boost he's out of baseball 6 years ago with a middling career based on defense only. 

His career before roids .270/.325/.453/.779. That's not on the ballot.

His career for the 8 years after roids .307/.358/.514/.872. That is what you remember.

Yeah, he got a medical pass that very few fans even know about so there won't be any Bonds or Clemens speculation but he got the same unequal benefits. The difference is Bonds and Clemens were Hall of Fame bound before they juiced. Beltre never was. 

Writers have made their stonewalling stance on Bonds and Clemens pretty clear.  If you are correct they will stonewall Beltre as well.

You are wrong.  He will be first ballot.

So let's just wait and see, and when he is voted in on the first ballot somebody can bump this thread.

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2 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Writers have made their stonewalling stance on Bonds and Clemens pretty clear.  If you are correct they will stonewall Beltre as well.

You are wrong.  He will be first ballot.

So let's just wait and see, and when he is voted in on the first ballot somebody can bump this thread.

No one would ever do that.

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5 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Writers have made their stonewalling stance on Bonds and Clemens pretty clear.  If you are correct they will stonewall Beltre as well.

You are wrong.  He will be first ballot.

So let's just wait and see, and when he is voted in on the first ballot somebody can bump this thread.

I didn't say they would stonewall Beltre, he has an MLB approved medical release. He will be on the ballot. Those voting for him will ignore he was roided and had an unfair advantage that not only boosted his performance but also artificially extended his career. And they will do so because no one is going to actually care. Like you.

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2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I didn't say they would stonewall Beltre, he has an MLB approved medical release. He will be on the ballot. Those voting for him will ignore he was roided and had an unfair advantage that not only boosted his performance but also artificially extended his career. And they will do so because no one is going to actually care. Like you.

So the writers adamantly hate steroids but will completely ignore your "valid" argument that he is a full blown cheater.

Got it.

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