Beltre Retires

[Dtwncbad]

Played hard?

[T.G.]

[Taylor]

Wait, some dudes find it acceptable to talk while going to the bathroom? I'm on Team Beltre in this scenario.

[Dtwncbad]

Just now, Taylor said:

Wait, some dudes find it acceptable to talk while going to the bathroom? I'm on Team Beltre in this scenario.

I agree but I am a hypocrite because I am on the toilet right now typing to you.

[Blarg]

16 minutes ago, DCAngelsFan said:

Clearly, he was a seminal player ...

This line of comedy is all fun and games until someone starts posting pics.

[UndertheHalo]

how things would have gone differently for the Angels had they signed Beltre is one of those equally useless and interesting conversations.  

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

Well actually he is in every Hall of Fame discussion, first ballot, and you will be in the minority on making steroids an issue here with your contrived claims related to a post-surgery medical prescription.

Except he's been getting a TUE every season since the injury.   People have let it slide but it's a real factor -- can't call him a cheater, but it gave him and edge on others.  

Edited November 20, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, mulwin444 said:

So, what you are saying is he had a legitimate, verifiable reason for being prescribed supplementation known and approved by the MLB and monitored by a doctor...whereas Clemens and Bonds did not?

Also, while the fans may not be as aware of it...I'm sure the baseball writers are

What he is saying is that while every other MLB in the game sees his body age and their hormones level drop, Beltre was able to maintain the testosterone levels of a man at age 27 because of Dr's orders.  

More importantly -- the Angels just gained four wins due to Beltre not being around to sink them on his own..

Edited November 20, 2018 by Inside Pitch

[mulwin444]

7 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What he is saying is that while every other MLB in the game sees his body age and their hormones level drop, Beltre was able to maintain the testosterone levels of a man at age 27 because of Dr's orders.  

I get his implication...difference was Beltre, for whatever he took, did so with the approval of the MLB for a known medical issue...Bonds and Clemens did so knowingly without MLB approval and to satisfy their own hubris.  The two situations are not comparable.

People can penalize Beltre all the want for taking prescribed and approved medical supplements, the question will be "will the ones whose opinion really matters, the BWAA, care about it?".  

[GrittyVeterans]

If only Pujols lost his testicles and could get on the juice...

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, notherhalo said:

If we signed him, we would have kept Napoli and not had, sigh, Vernon Wells.

Napoli was more or less the Texas MVP.  Subtracting him would have us in the race in the AL West.  

Not being desperate to catch up, we wouldn't have signed Pujols.  Overpaying more than Texas for Beltre would have been a slightly discounted, better performing Pujols at a position we would always have in need, at half the contract rate. 

Not signing Beltre is easily the worst Angel move in history since letting Ryan go elsewhere and possibly of all time. 

 

Vernon Wells......... yuck

 

We obviously will never know. But i feel the same way. Beltre, and morales not breaking his ankle...those two things happening would have completely changed this team.

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

I agree but I am a hypocrite because I am on the toilet right now typing to you.

I believe @Adam deemed it acceptable to post on AngelsWin while on the can.

 

[Dtwncbad]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What he is saying is that while every other MLB in the game sees his body age and their hormones level drop, Beltre was able to maintain the testosterone levels of a man at age 27 because of Dr's orders.  

More importantly -- the Angels just gained four wins due to Beltre not being around to sink them on his own..

Aren't there are limits to the amount of allowable testosterone in the body for mlb players?  Beltre was allowed the therapy (as any other player would) but I cannot find anywhere any mention that Beltre was allowed a HIGHER level of testosterone (or other) than "normal".  It appears he still had to keep his levels within the guidelines.

If someone can find anything that says otherwise, please share it.

[GrittyVeterans]

2 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

We obviously will never know. But i feel the same way. Beltre, and morales not breaking his ankle...those two things happening would have completely changed this team.

Yup. No Wells if you get Beltre. No Pujols probably if Kendrys stays healthy. Hamilton and Wilson probably still happen, but that’s at least manageable

They made some really bad decisions but they were also kind of unlucky. Shame

[Taylor]

10 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

More importantly -- the Angels just gained four wins due to Beltre not being around to sink them on his own..

He'll probably be hired as some team's manager and proceed to go 9-0 against the Angels next year.

[GrittyVeterans]

13 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What he is saying is that while every other MLB in the game sees his body age and their hormones level drop, Beltre was able to maintain the testosterone levels of a man at age 27 because of Dr's orders.  

More importantly -- the Angels just gained four wins due to Beltre not being around to sink them on his own..

There have been a few series against the Angels over the last 7 seasons where Beltre has turned into Mike Trout type impact player. It’s crazy

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

I get his implication...difference was Beltre, for whatever he took, did so with the approval of the MLB for a known medical issue...Bonds and Clemens did so knowingly without MLB approval and to satisfy their own hubris.  The two situations are not comparable.

People can penalize Beltre all the want for taking prescribed and approved medical supplements, the question will be "will the ones whose opinion really matters, the BWAA, care about it?".  

I don't think anyone (BBWAA), will penalize him because it WAS approved by MLB -- but it doesn't change that he gained an edge -- and I believe that was his point that he got to cheat AGING, not cheat the game.   I chose to focus on what he was actually saying ie... that minus that very rare situation it's unlikely he is being talked about as a HOFer -- so either you believe the guy magically became a better player after that injury or you accept that it had a rather significant impact on him.  Eye"ball"ing his career -- it's hard to argue it didn't.

[ten ocho recon scout]

7 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

Yup. No Wells if you get Beltre. No Pujols probably if Kendrys stays healthy. Hamilton and Wilson probably still happen, but that’s at least manageable

They made some really bad decisions but they were also kind of unlucky. Shame

Wilson i could see. Not sure about hamilton.

Ill throw another wrinkle. Without pujols, we could have afforded to keep grienke. And kept trumbo.

I know trumbo gets knocked on here, but his numbers NOW and the last few years have been better than albert...so trumbo + grienke....

Sigh

[T.G.]

This is typical of an AW thread...  Adrain Beltre retires and rather than talk about his HOF career, folks here want to talk about his "junk."

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, GrittyVeterans said:

There have been a few series against the Angels over the last 7 seasons where Beltre has turned into Mike Trout type impact player. It’s crazy

Dude was a freaking beast .vs the Angels and it sucked because unlike Arod and other opposing players, Beltre was extremely likeable.

[Mark68]

12 minutes ago, Taylor said:

I believe @Adam deemed it accessible to post on AngelsWin while on the can.

 

Accessible? I hope not.

 

Acceptable. Sure, why not?

[mulwin444]

Just now, Inside Pitch said:

I don't think anyone (BBWAA), will penalize him because it WAS approved by MLB -- but it doesn't change that he gained an edge -- and I believe that was his point that he got to cheat AGING, not cheat the game.   I chose to focus on what he was actually saying ie... that minus that very rare situation it's unlikely he is being talked about as a HOFer -- so either you believe the guy magically became a better player after that injury or you accept that it had a rather significant impact on him.  Eye"ball"ing his career -- it's hard to argue it didn't.

Like what was brought up earlier in this thread, do we know what his "limit" was in terms of testosterone supplementation?  Despite the the medical clearance, I highly doubt he was given a waiver to 'roid himself to the gills and was never monitored.  

It's likely a combination - he improved as a hitter AND was able to likely last a bit longer career-wise due to the supplementation.  Who knows.  If he gets in to the Hall of Fame, he wouldn't be the worst choice in recent years with Andre Dawson and Jim Rice in the mix 

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, Taylor said:

He'll probably be hired as some team's manager and proceed to go 9-0 against the Angels next year.

You're a dick!...   Also, you're probably right.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

Like what was brought up earlier in this thread, do we know what his "limit" was in terms of testosterone supplementation?  Despite the the medical clearance, I highly doubt he was given a waiver to 'roid himself to the gills and was never monitored.  

It's likely a combination - he improved as a hitter AND was able to likely last a bit longer career-wise due to the supplementation.  Who knows.  If he gets in to the Hall of Fame, he wouldn't be the worst choice in recent years with Andre Dawson and Jim Rice in the mix 

Well, from what I've been told -- the standard dosage for these types of things is the whatever peak physical performance is -- period.   Since it's impossible to argue that he wasn't that rare exception to the rule that maintains his testosterone levels through age 40, he was able to stay at the same peak level forever.

It's not about being roided to the gills, it's about remaining age 27 forever.   

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Ochocinco! said:

First Ballot HOF and funniest ball player to ever step on the field